================================================================================ (C) 1989 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt. Type XJM11877,GEnie and hit RETURN. The system will prompt you for your information. ================================================================================ ************ Topic 6 Mon Aug 31, 1987 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) Sub: Word Up WordUp from Neocept. A GDOS word processor with graphics importing. 152 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 1 Sun Jul 10, 1988 NEOTRON [NEOCEPT/MIKE] (Forwarded) Hello everyone, this is Mike Fulton @ NEOCEPT. I know it's been a while since I've been online to answer questions. Sorry about that, but we are so busy lately it is difficult to find the time. Before I start answering specific messages, I'd like to make a few general announcements and statements. ----- As I said in the last message I left, however, our technical support policy has been changed. You now longer have free access to our technical support line for only 60 days after purchase, but for as long as you need. Because of this change, the tech. support telephone line will be busier than before. So please, if you have to call the technical support line, please make certain that you have your original disks and manual handy to help answer any questions we may have about your problem. If you do not have these materials, we may not be able to help you. And if it is at all possible, have your computer system handy when you call so you can try our suggestions. And please read your manual carefully. If your problem is about something which is explained in the manual, you will be directed to that section of the manual. Please try to restrict your questions on the technical support line to problems you are having, and not about other subjects. We want everybody to have a chance to get through. If the phone line is busy, please try again a bit later. NEOCEPT Technical Support Monday-Friday, 10:00am to 5:00pm (805) 498-8859 By the way, we do intend to issue refunds to those people who had paid $25.00 for a year of technical support. I am not sure exactly when this will be done, but it will be as soon as possible. ----- Incidentally, although we may not reply to each individual message left here, we do read them all. Suggestions for new features and/or feature changes are welcome, and most get added to our new-features list if they aren't there already, but we will not always reply to such messages, in the interest of concentrating on the messages with questions about problems. And even when we like an idea for a new feature, it may not be something we can immediately do something about. Also, if you need an immediate response to something, leaving a message on GENIE is not going to get it in most cases. We simply don't have the manpower to watch it that closely. Call us for things like this. If you leave a message regarding a problem, please tell us both the version number and the release date of WordUp that you are using. Otherwise, we don't know how best to help you. ----- From time to time, I read a message that says something like "Where is the upgrade you promised us two weeks ago?" Now, I can understand wanting to know when an upgrade will be available. But we are a small company. The more time we spend answering questions like that with "We are still working on it" means it takes longer to finish. We try to do things as quickly as we can, but we don't want to introduce new problems while fixing old ones, so we have to be careful. So far, we haven't introduced any new bugs while fixing old ones, and we would like to keep things that way. Also, I may at times speculate about some things here, such as feature additions or upgrade release dates. Please people, these are usually estimates only, and not to be taken as a personal promise. Things can change. If I say an upgrade will be made in about two weeks, that's just a rough estimate. We would usually prefer not making announcements like that in the first place, because it is so difficult to fulfill it, but on the other hand it's even harder not to say anything. Sometimes things are put off so that additional improvements can be made, or because something else which demands attention comes up in the meantime. Being a small company means that everyone's priorities can be changed at any time. One thing I'm going to start right now is that we will not announce any upgrades or changes until they are available. This might mean that some of you will sometimes hear what amounts to "No comment at this time" because something isn't ready yet, but it should help things overall. I will say that we are working on updates to both WordUp and FONTZ!, including new features, but that's all I'll say so please don't ask for more. When they are ready to ship, I'll tell you. I guess that what I'm trying to say is, please give us a chance, and we will do our best. We may not be on time, but we'll get there. We do not intentionally try to do things that people don't like, such as missing an upgrade date, but it does happen sometimes. Please bear with us, because we are trying very hard to give our customers a good product with good support. We are starting to come out of our infancy, so things should be more stable soon. ----- We are now shipping a new release of WordUp which fixes another batch of bugs from the original release, including the click in the footnote problem. Also, the contents of the package have been changed somewhat. Instead of 1 double-sided and 2 single-sided disks, WordUp now comes with three single- sided disks, including additional new printer drivers. We are able to get all this on three single-sided disks by storing the files in ARC format. A special installation program is used to de-arc the files into the system. The ARC files are password protected (the disks are still unprotected), and can only be accessed by the special install program. This will allow us to offer future upgrades on GENIE, since only people who have the installation program on their original disks will be able to de-arc the files. You simply tell the installation program what kind of system you have and change disks when it tells you, and it will de-arc all the files to the proper places, resulting in ready to use WordUp working disks. It works with floppy disk and hard disk installations. Double-sided disk drives will still be required for some setups. Printer drivers and fonts are included for the Epson FX/compatible or Atari SMM804/Gemini 10X 9-pin printers, and for the Epson LQ/compatible or Citizen 224/Toshiba P351/compatible 24-pin printers, as well as Epson FX/compatible 9-pin printers. Also included are instructions on setting up WordUp for use with the Atari SLM804 Laser printer. This upgrade is free, and you can obtain it by the following method. Send a letter requesting the upgrade to NEOCEPT, and include all three original disks. Also include a self-addressed, stamped envelope (3 stamps). Please note that huge heavy-duty padded envelopes are not required. A small manila envelope or even a legal envelope will do fine, as long as you wrap your letter around the disks. Send this to: NEOCEPT ATTN: TECHNICAL SUPPORT/UPGRADES 547 Constitution, Unit A Camarillo, CA 93010 ----- As far as upgrades and announcements go, I offer the following. First of all, NEOCEPT keeps track of its products by a combination of version number and release date. When a product is upgraded to fix program errors, but no significant feature changes/additions are made, then the release date is changed, but not the version number. The version number is changed only when new features are added or existing features are significantly changed in operation. We do not make official announcements when only the release date is changed. This is because there are people who would be sending in their disks every two weeks when it's not really necessary. Also, we don't feel we should wait 4 months before issuing a new release for a bug fix, so we fix the bugs as we can and issue new releases accordingly. We don't issue new releases every time we fix a single bug, but we try not to delay the release of fixed bugs more than is really necessary. If you aren't having a specific problem with something, then you shouldn't be worried about every little change that we make. We will from time to time tell you what the current version numbers and release dates are. The current releases are listed below. WORDUP -- Version: 1.00, Release: 7-1-88 FONTZ! -- Version: 1.11, Release: 6-2- 88 ----- WordUp Changes The following is a list of what changes have been made to the various releases of WordUp. The version number and release date are given, followed by a list of what changes were made. ----- Version 1.00, Original Release 3/22/88 ----- Version 1.00, Release 4/5/88 Bug from 3/22/88 fixed - Only printing one graphic per page, due to not leaving system enough memory for v_bit_image() to work more than once. ----- Version 1.00, Release 4/13/88 Bug from 3/22/88 fixed - GEM *.IMG graphics were not working properly, they would crash when they or nearby text was manipulated ----- Version 1.00, Release 4/21/88 Font Selector dialog box changed -- now has working scroll arrows & scroll bar, as well as sample box to show current selection in current type style. Bug from 3/22/88 fixed - Instant Expand feature of glossary not working at times... Dialog box would come up with Expand as default, instead of just expanding term. ----- Version 1.00, Release 6/21/88 Bug from 3/22/88 fixed - Clicking mouse in footnotes no longer crashes system - including double-clicks. Also, Selecting block via mouse with one end in footnote no longer crashes. Bug from 3/22/88 fixed - Disk format error caused both error and success alerts to be shown, now shows only error alert. Feature change - Default page size now changed to 8.000 x 11.000 inches, to avoid centering problems with the way paper is usually fed through a printer. The 8.500x11.000 choice is still available in page size dialog box. Bug from 3/22/88 fixed - If disk drive P: installed in system, WordUp would not allow disk access for file loading/saving. Now recognizes drives A-P correctly. Bug from 3/22/88 fixed - WordUp would not allow you to move from a desk accessory window to a WordUp window by clicking in it. This is now fixed. Also, WordUp did not disable menu choices when a desk accessory window was put on top, Now WordUp disables appropriate menu choices in this instance, and restores them when a WordUp window is topped again. Bug from 3/22/88 fixed - WordUp would overwrite desk accessory with ruler if desk accessory was top window when WordUp window redrawn. Feature change - Configuration dialog box now uses a single choice for showing or hiding the paragraph, carriage return, page break, and section markers. Feature change - Some menu choices have had their text change to improve understanding their function. Bug from 3/22/88 fixed -- WordUp would redraw its top window on top of desk accessory windows if the desk accessory window was the top one overall. This no longer happens. Feature change/bug from 3/22/88 fixed - Disk Free space dialog no longer defaults to drive A:. Now defaults to drive with default directory, as specified in Preferences menu (This is WordUp boot drive and directory, unless Preferences are changed and then saved.) ----- Version 1.0, Release 7/1/88 Feature Change -- WordUp now comes on three single-sided disks, with ARC files containing the program and printer drivers and fonts for 4 different basic printer setups including most 9-pin and 24-pin printers. An installation program is included to automatically de-arc the files onto working disks. Double-sided floppy drives or hard disks will still be required for some installations. Also included are fonts and instructions for installing WordUp with Atari SLM804 Laser Printer. Program file size is slightly reduced due to program code optimization. --------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- FONTZ! Changes The following is a list of what changes have been made to the various releases of FONTZ!. The version number and release date are given, followed by a list of what changes were made. ----- Original Release, version 1.00, 1/20/88 ----- Version 1.03, 2/25/88 Font alignment lines now displayed in editing window as well as display window. GDOS installation program from Atari now included. Bug from version 1.0 fixed - Scaling fonts with non-square pixels Bug from version 1.0 fixed - Characters getting shifted to right Face ID number of included Camelot fonts changed from 5000 to 200, to accomodate bug in Microsoft Write which disallowed fonts with ID numbers greater than 255. Bug from version 1.0 fixed - Writing to write protected disks/damaged disks would crash when canceled. ----- Version 1.10, 5-26-88 Bug from version 1.0 fixed - Pixel drawn on edit grid when selecting/not selecting a drop-down menu item -- Program now checks for dropped-down menu before allowing drawing in edit grid. Bug from version 1.0 fixed - Memory allocation problem, if printer drivers keep some memory in resolution-test, could be less available memory than that wanted by FONTZ! -- program now rechecks available memory in between testing GEM devices and allocating buffers. ----- Version 1.11, 6-2-88 Bug from version 1.0 fixed -- System Locks up when repeated scrolling in Display window with scroll/slider/arrows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- TO R.NEHEM - msg 97 We have had an overwrite mode on our new-feature list for some time now. There are problems with getting it to work at full speed however, because basically the program has to delete one character and then insert another. When you have things like style changes, multiple sizes and typefaces, and so on, the problem gets worse. We still have it on our list, and if it is added, we will announce it. ----- TO LEPULLY -- msg 99, 101, 107 Regarding our phone conversation the other day on the phone, I would like everyone else to know that the replacement-GDOS you have mentioned, called A-DOS, is also a REPLACEMENT LINE-A, and that it was my opinion that most of the speed difference between Atari's GDOS and this A-DOS was likely due to the new LINE-A routines, not the GDOS routines. It sounded basically like having GDOS and the TURBO ST program combined into one program. At any rate, as I said, we would be interested in learning more about this A-DOS program. If you can have the author contact us, or get the information to us so we can contact him, we would appreciate it. ----- TO C.DAYMON -- msg 103, 104 There is no such thing as a hard space in WordUp at this time. However, the idea is on our list of new features to be considered. Regarding your problem with the disk formatting, there was an error (fixed in the current release) with the handling of disk errors during formatting. If the format was successful, then you'll only see the success message. But if an error occured, then both messages would be shown. If you get the error box, try again or change disks, regardless of the success message afterwards. Upper-case letters for page numbering is now added to the new feature list. ----- TO G.HILBERT -- msg 106 We cannot legally upload the printer drivers. Parts of them are licenced from Atari and can be distributed only as part of a product package. We are sorry about this, but that's the way it is. However, see the upgrade annoucement eariler in this message. Also, regarding the Timeworks Publisher @ 360x360 mode with 24-pin printer, the fonts with jaggies are scaled versions of smaller fonts. By the way, for everyone's information, let me give a little information about how Timeworks Publisher ST seems to work with fonts. The fontwidth program that comes with Publisher creates a data file with font size information in it so it can match up printer fonts and screen fonts. Their installation program does things like set up the 300x300 laser fonts with the 360x360 24-pin driver, or the 150x150 laser fonts with the 180x180 24- pin driver. The pointsizes the fonts have don't really match what they are used as. (For example, if you have a 24-pin printer installed, the printer font with the filename indicating 36 point will probably be the 30 point font for the laser printer.) The datafile made with the fontwidth program allows Publisher to know that it should use a certain size printer font to print the output of a certain sized screen font. This sounds confusing, and it took me a while playing with the program to figure it out. This method works, but it really plays havok with the idea of having one setup of ASSIGN.SYS and fonts to use with different programs. If you use the Publisher ST 24-pin printer setup with WordUp, then WordUp will not find a 12 point printer font to match the 12 point screen font, because Timeworks wasn't using a 12 point printer font. (This is only true of some of the setups with Publisher ST, not all. It seems that only the 24-pin printers and Lasers share the same fonts. The 9-pin printer fonts probably match the screen sizes, I haven't looked.) I guess the whole idea is to allow the package to include installations for most printers, and it does succeed at that. We have come up with another method of achieving about the same thing, however, and it doesn't do anything too weird. See the announcement above. Regarding your message about 360x360 mode, different styles of the same typeface do not affect the memory requirements, as Bold, Outlined, Light, and other such styles are generated on the fly. Two sizes per typeface isn't too drastic, but the memory requirements depend on the sizes used. If they are small sizes that you are printing big, then your effective resolution is only 180x180 anyway, but it is taking 4 times longer to print. As for NEOCEPT releasing a 360x360 driver, we will do so when we have had the chance to create fonts for that size. The difference will be more noticable with graphics than with text, because scaling to different sizes can be more precise. I have no idea at the moment when this will be ready, however. ----- to R.PROCTOR -- msg 108 If you need to line things up at a certain position across the page, create a tab stop at that position and tab out to it. This is because the characters have different widths in most typefaces, and the number of characters required to reach a certain place depends on what's used on the line. You should probably go to the top of where you need to line things up, and insert a section marker. Go to the bottom and do the same. Now move in between these markers and change/add/delete your tab stops so that you have one at each position where things need to line up. Now hit tab at the end of one part of text to reach the next part where things line up. __________ L _______________ L ______ <-- Tabs on WordUp ruler [-- tab --]Text text text text text text text text text text. Text text text text text text text text. Text text text text text text. [-- tab --]text...[-- tab --]text See how tabs are used to jump text out to the proper position, instead of inserting a number of spaces? Also, If you move the tab stops around, the text will move to follow. A tab simply is a quick way of jumping across the page to a specified position (the tab stop). It is not for formatting multiple newspaper-style columns of text or anything like that. You should see tutorial #1 in the manual again. And the idea of paying for technical support after 60 days was designed to keep the program from costing $99.95 or $129.95 or more, since the cost of that extra technical support would have to be added to every copy of the program sold, even if most people didn't need it. (This is why list price of WordPerfect is $395.00 -- paying for tech support.) We have since changed this policy anyway, as mentioned above. ----- To D.DOUGAN -- msg 109 There was no 5/16/88 upgrade. That was an estimate of when it would be ready, and we did not make that date. We are currently shipping version 1.00, Release 7/1/88. See announcement below for more information. ----- To TIM.BARR -- msg 112 There are pipeline hooks to certain parts of FONTZ! and WORDUP, but neither is documented for outside release at this time. We will discuss the matter with developers who contact us regarding this. We will probably not release these specifications to the general public at any time soon, however. You mentioned that someone might be interested in making a shareware/PD desk accessory. To do what, exactly? Do you have someone or something specific in mind? ----- to S.WHITNEY -- msg 113, 114 As I said earlier, if you need an immediate response about something, call us instead of leaving us a message here. Right now, everybody has WordUp version 1.00. What is your release date? Also, if you spend hours re-typing something, that means that you went for hours without saving it in the first place. With any program at all, it's a good idea to save often. What if the power went out? Save your files every page or so, and you will be much safer. The crashing footnote problem is fixed. Also, the problem with footnotes had nothing to do with line spacing. It had to do with clicking the mouse in the footnote in the first place. WordUp thought you were trying to select a block, and this is not allowed in a footnote. If you tried to click between lines of text, then you were just clicking often enough for the problem to occur. This problem is fixed in the current version. Footnotes are still slower than we like, but clicking the mouse in them will not crash anymore. ----- To S.WOO -- msg 118 WordUp formats page numbers when they are printed or displayed. The format used depends on that selected when the page numbering was inserted. If you are using master pages to do page numbering, then you need to insert a new master page if you want to change the format of the page numbering. Or optionally, you could print the pages from one format, change the page numbering on the original master page (delete the current page numbering, insert new), and then print the rest of the pages in the different format. It's not so much a matter of the change from roman numbering to arabic being incorrect by being consecutive when you change formats, as it's a misunderstanding of how it's supposed to work. You should probably have these two sections in different documents to make them easier to manage. WordUp will allow you to have both loaded together, and it doesn't sound like you would have text running out of the end of the first part into the start of the second part. ----- To S.NIES -- msg 122 You say you are getting an insufficient memory error. But we need to know what kind of system you have to tell you why? What printer is used, what memory size in computer, what fonts are loaded, what desk accessories, etc... We have to know what's in the computer to know why things don't have enough memory to work. ----- to C.DAYMON -- msg 133 We are not going to make any announcements about what will be included in new releases of WordUp or FONTZ! until they are ready to ship. See info above for what changes have been made in the various releases of WordUp and FONTZ! ----- to D.N.WHEELER -- msg 135 WordUp will use the printer's internal fonts only for the ASCII mode printing, which is a simple draft mode. There are no definite plans at this time for any extension of this ability to allow for more abilities like bold, underlining, and so on. We do want to do it, but we don't want to talk about it until it is done and ready to give to everyone. WordUp _does_ allow you to double-click on a word to select it, and always has. However, because a word of text on screen is treated a little differently than an AES object (like an icon), it is a bit more sensitive to having the mouse in the middle of the word. Also, if your mouse double-click speed is set too high, you may have to double-click very, very fast for it to register. You can set that with the control panel. Selecting a block and then typing to replace it is a Macintosh-ism that you have picked up, isn't it? Unfortunately, we don't agree with this method of doing things. It's somewhat non-intuitive. (Hey, where did my text go, I didn't tell it to delete it!) There are already easy ways to select lines and paragraphs, see your manual. As for the whole document, I've added your idea to the list we keep of feature change/addition ideas. ----- to C.DAYMON -- msg 139 Congratulations on being the first person to actually report running into this problem. We knew it existed, but never gave it very high priority because very few people are going to be going back and forth between the different monitors. This problem exists in every release of WordUp. I will explain what the problem is. Basically, WordUp determines what fits on a page by adding up the heights of each line, in pixels. By subtracting the margins from the page height, we know how many pixels fit on the screen. When you add lines together, a page break occurs when a line will not fit in the space left on the page. When you are using the color monitor, some fonts are not exactly proportional in height to the monochrome screen fonts. For example, 12 point text on the monochrome monitor is 15 lines tall. Since the color monitor has half the vertical resolution, the same color font should be 7.5 lines tall, which you cannot do. Things get rounded off to 8 lines, which means that for each line of text, there is a little difference added to the height of things. By the time you get to the bottom of the page, it can affect how many lines fit on a page. The difference will depend on what fonts are used. The smaller the font, the more difference adding .5 lines per row will make. The printed results will match the screen display. Ideally, the same file should look the same on either monitor, but it does not, as things stand right now. Aside from some inconveniences when going between monitors, this will not affect anything at all. Basically, if you want a page to end in a certain place, you should use a page break. ----- to M.SQUIRE -- msg 140 The Working directory for WordUp is where it will write out any temporary files that may be used by various actions, including printing. When printing graphics, WordUp must write an *.IMG file of the graphic to disk for the GEM Printer Driver to be able to get it. Once printed, the I would not recommend using a print spooler with WordUp. With even a 9-pin Epson FX printer, a page of graphics is about 128K, so the print spooler isn't really going to make much difference. During printing, a ramdisk would improve things only if graphics are included on a page. If the ramdisk is not big enough, the graphic will not be able to print. A regular Degas pic will require about 33K of free disk space. (Which means a 42K ramdisk, because of disk overhead.) As for WordUp not remembering D:\ as your working directory, are you choosing SAVE PREFERENCES after setting this? Does drive D:\ exist when you start the program? ----- to S.WOO -- msg 141 The items that are saved by SAVE PREFERENCES are listed in the WordUp manual. A few additions are in the README file on the WordUp Program Disk. What do you consider to be preferences? What is not saved that you want to be? ----- Well, that's all for now. I'll try not to let so much time go by again before I upload another message. On another subject, I saw the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" on the 4th, and it was excellent. I recommend it highly. One thing though, although it's largely about cartoon characters and has a lot of animation, it's not really aimed at little kids. Not much in the way of bad language or anything, just the storyline would be a bit complex for many youngsters. They might still enjoy just watching the characters, though. Mike Fulton NEOCEPT ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 5 Wed Jul 13, 1988 CHARDIMAN (Forwarded) There are a couple of things that are real ly small peeves for me, but I'd reall y like to see them changed. First of all, there is the select word feature. As it is, when a word is selected , just that word, without the trailing space, is defined. Most word processors also define a trailing space if there is one. That way, if you delete the word, it doesn't leave an extra space for you to have to clean up. (Incidentally, trying to define a word when the cursor is located on a space between words gives you a "non-fatal error.") Seco nd, it would really help if you could replace with a format symbol as well as search for one. Currently, on a search and replace operation, you can only search for, say, a paragraph marker. If you want to replace the marker as well, you're out of luck. Like I say, small stuff, but it really affects the way I use WordUp. -- Clayt ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 6 Thu Jul 14, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) This may be a now corrected bug, but in my 4/13/88 Release 1.00 WordUp, if you have a line center justified and want to move the cursor to a character within that line with the mouse, clicking on the character to jump somewhere usually near the beginning of the line. (Probably the location of the character on a left-justified line.) Moving the cursor within the line with the cursor keys does work correctly. -Craig Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 8 Sat Jul 16, 1988 M.SQUIRE [Mike] (Forwarded) Mike, I have been setting up a reset-proof ramdisk (30K) as D: on my "Word Up" boot disk prior to running any other AUTO folder program. Therefore, when I load "Word Up", a 30K D: ramdisk is always in existence. After loading in "Word Up", I select Directories from the Preferences menu and it always gives me the A: disk as my working directory even though I have selected the D: ramdisk on previous sessions with "Word Up" and then supposedly saved that preference with Save Preferences. This problem is not peculiar to this ramdisk program. I have used other ramdisk programs and "Word Up" will not allow me to save my working directory preference. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 13 Thu Aug 04, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) I just spoke with Mike today and he says the 6/21/88 release is the latest version. The 7/1/88 changes are relative to the other files. Check all the file dates and you will find that a few ARE dated 7/1/88. He also said they will be uploading a DRAFT printer driver for the FX-80. It will offer a print time less than half that of the final print. Holly, back a few messages (last message from Mike) is a very long message telling about the current state of WordUp and FONTZ! and how to get the latest version of each. (Just send in your disks with a self addressed stamped envelope - one stamp per disk.) -Craig Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 21 Tue Aug 23, 1988 M.SQUIRE [Mike] (Forwarded) Neocept (Mike), I just received my copy of G+PLUS in the mail yesterday evening and was overjoyed to receive it! I will be using G+PLUS in conjunction with WORD UP (I am using Version 1.00, Release 7/1/88) and I was delighted how much faster my screen was able to update itself. G+PLUS promises to be a good investment. However, there is a problem area with WORD UP usage in conjunction with G+PLUS that I wish to bring to your attention. WORD UP has a feature, added in Version 1.00, Release 4/21/88, called a font selector dialog box (press Alt- F to select or use the drop down Font menu selections) which has a sample box that shows a sample of the font selection selected in the current type style. With GDOS, this sample is displayed; however, with G+PLUS, for some reason, it is not. Originally, I thought that G+PLUS was not loading the selected SYS file. This is not the case - you just won't see the selected font in the sample box. When you go to enter text into your document, the selected font and point size will be used. It looks to me like other WORD UP users would be well advised to purchase a copy of G+PLUS as well. A discussion of G+PLUS may be found here in the Roundtable under Category 2, Topic 29. I hope that as you continue to improve WORD UP and offer revisions that you will take into account G+PLUS compatibility (as well as compatibility with TURBO ST, another one of my favorite programs). ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 22 Thu Aug 25, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) I also have been using the 7/1/88 release of WordUp and noticed a bug that I'm surprised got past me the first few times I've used it since the update. When printing multiple pages, a form-feed is not executed at the end of a page to ensure that the next page starts at the top. It seems there is a calculation done to estimate the number of lines and a new page starts when this is reached. This has caused following pages to start about a quarter inch before they should and is wrecking havoc with my print-outs because I usually put a page number on the bottom of a MASTER page. I was using it to create some information for work and had to result to printing each page separately, form- feeding the printer from the printer controls before printing the next page. HELP. -Craig Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 26 Fri Sep 09, 1988 P.GENOVESE (Forwarded) Must I call or write to Neocept for the update? I have Ver. 1.00 Release 4/21/88. I would expect sending in the registration card would cause at the least a notification of the new version. Same should be true for Fontz. I guess not all software companys support their product like Migraph. P.R.G. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 27 Sat Sep 10, 1988 G.ANDERSON (Forwarded) I suggest you call/write Neocept for the updates. Their new address is 547 Constitution, Unit A. Camarillo CA 93010 Keep in mind that Neocept is a VERY small outfit, only a few folks out there have to do everything from programming to packaging so I'm not surprised of a few thing slip through the cracks. Be sure to include your original disks when you send in for the upgrade (and yes, there are more recent versions than 1.0). Most of the changes are in bug fixes and refinements. I forget if there's an upgrade charge or not, sorry. Gregg /s ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 29 Mon Sep 26, 1988 G.ANDERSON (Forwarded) Hi Stan, yes the Neocept driver for the DeskJet does work and it does seem to be faster than Migraph's unit. Keep in mind though, that even with the faster drivers the DeskJet is no speed demon in graphics... Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 30 Mon Sep 26, 1988 T.BOEDEKER1 (Forwarded) I am interested in learning if 24 pin printers speed up output with Wordup or if they just improve quality over 9 pin printers. Does anyone have experience with the NEC P2200 and Epson LQ500 and their quality in printing and speed on WORDUP documents? I'd like to hear on this. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 31 Tue Sep 27, 1988 STACE [Mark] (Forwarded) Gregg, In my testing, the Neocept DeskJet driver (TurboJet) is *slightly* faster than the Migraph driver in 300 dpi final mode. However, one EXCELLENT feature that TurboJet has (and no other driver I am aware of does) is the ability to do a "draft" copy of your page WIHOUT having to use a different set of fonts or assign.sys file. TurboJet cleverly uses the final/draft "buttons" in Atari's Control Panel DA to quickly and easily switch between rough draft and 300 dpi modes. Mark ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 32 Tue Sep 27, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) So do the rest of the Neocept drivers. Question though, is this internal to the driver (meaning that using this driver with Easy-Draw would do the same) or is it a program switch? since the drivers are essentially programs within themselves with pipes to the application. Is anyone else still having problems with WordUp and .IMG files? Now that I have the latest IMG-Scan software, I can create quite a library of .IMG graphics, but I don't have Supercharger and everytime I use WordUp with one of these files, it locks-up or just crashes. (7/1/88 Release + Updated driver disk) I'm dying to see what that picture of Woody Allen looks like on paper. There is a new scanner for the IBM from Mitsubishi on page 221 of the latest issue of Byte (October '88). It really looks interesting and the software to let it work with the ST would really be a plus for some company. (Neocept?) This is a hand-held, full-page scanner. This would be a great item for the ST. -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 33 Tue Sep 27, 1988 G.ANDERSON (Forwarded) As far as I know, the 'draft' vs 'final' selection is in the drivers them- selves, so it should allow other programs to take advantage of it (I understand that Timeworks' DTP can use them, I can't swear that EasyDraw can since their driver uses some areas differently than Neocept's drivers) In final mode I found the Neocept drivers to be slightly faster than Mighraph's, but it wasn't until I used their DeskJet drivers that I found a major difference (in Neocept's favor). As for 24 pin drivers, I don't think they included the final/draft option in these drivers, something about missing 'hooks' into the printer's OS or something... And yes, even with the higher quality (and higher res fonts) your 24 pin units are about 25% faster than a 9- pin unit, at least according to my tests they were.... I tested an Epson, but I assume the NECs would work out about the same. Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 34 Tue Sep 27, 1988 STACE [Mark] (Forwarded) All of my comments are in regard to Neocept's DeskJet driver as it is the only one I have had any experience with. While I haven't tested TurboJet with EasyDraw, the draft/final "switching" should work fine. TurboJet is GDOS driver. Mark ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 35 Thu Sep 29, 1988 TIM.BARR (Forwarded) Hello, Is Neocept There?? I never saw an answer to my question about landscape mode for WordUp. I would like to be able to print 'sideways' (with GDOS fonts) using a word processor. My only option right now is to use Easy Draw. One reason why I need to print in landscape mode, is that I am taking a business class, at the local university, and need to make view cells. I would prefer to use WordUp alone to make my view cells. I would think that it would not be too hard to do, since GDOS supports 90 degree rotations of fonts. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 36 Fri Sep 30, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) It may not be quite what you want, but I have written a program that prints sideways using GDOS fonts. It's called Manual Maker and is file number 8156. Take a look and let me know what you think. I have a Topic for it in Cat 2. Topic #21. -Craig W. Daymon C.DAYMON ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 37 Sat Oct 01, 1988 DHAMM (Forwarded) Yes,Turbojet works in draft mode with EasyDraw.I was one of the Beta testers. Dave Hamm ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 38 Tue Oct 04, 1988 NEOTRON [NEOCEPT/MIKE] (Forwarded) Mike Fulton is still in charge of answering questions in this topic, but while I was online, I figured I would say hi. Mike will be posting replies soon, so please be patient. To the dealer who wants new WordUp, we will be annoucing new versions( and shipping them ) with Mike's next message. Registered users will recieve notices, and should not send NOT send their disks in for upgrade until recieving such. By the way, as a general rule I read all of the messages posted here. Shelby Moore -- Persident/CEO -- NEOCEPT INC. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 39 Wed Oct 05, 1988 RANDOM2 [Kevin] (Forwarded) Shelby or Mike, when will Neocept start shipping some copies of Wordup? My local dealer has had an order in for me for about five weeks now. I was not in any hurry when I asked him to order it for me (along with fontz) but this sort of delay is starting to make me nervous about Neocept and any program that they produce. I want a solid program and it encourages me that Shelby stopped in and left the message that he did but lets have some results. The messages in this topic seem to be almost non existent. Does that mean that the number of users are also very few. I want the program because I want to use multiple fonts and a graphic or two. So far Wordup is the only non DTP program to allow this. I use an NEC P7 printer. When and if I finally get the program will I have to send off for a printer driver? a concerned customer, Kevin. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 40 Tue Oct 18, 1988 G.HILBERT (Forwarded) to Mike Fulton / NEOCEPT I returned by version 1 release 4/13 disks a month ago to recieve new fonts & 24 pin drivers per your message here dated 7/10/88 describing a 7/1 release on version 1.0 . Have you received them? Are you holding off for a particular reason, or are you just swamped working on new versions? I got a new 24 pin printer Star NX2400 and it works ok with the FX80 driver, but I am getting antsy to see what it can do with the LQ drivers. If you didn't get my package, please let me know what I must do. I really like WordUp and would like to use it to the max of my printer. question 2 : is there a max point size limit in Fontz or WordUp? I've been trying to make some front of the room posters for my wife who is a teacher. Using a 1040ST (1 meg) and ALL accessories removed, i created a single font with two sizes 144 and 42 . The 42 works fine as does a 72 version I use in a different assign.sys file. es The 144 point font PRINTS ok but doesn't display anything on my color monitor. It does move the cursor as I type but I cannot see the letters nor does it seem to move the cursor enough to represent the gargantuan characters I.ve created with Fontz. I do a lot of trial and error to get the words centered. Sometimes , this font also causes a red band (about 2 inches wide) to sweep up from the bottom of the screen to the top. This is followed by a black band in the saame place. This only seems to happen when I enter the font selector alt-F and force the program to notice the 144 point font. Usually when i first enter the font selector, it shows that the program has chosen the system 6x6 font until I click on the font name...then the screen blinks a few times and the 144 shows up as the only choice in the size box. After returnig to the edit screen and trying to type...this is when the red & black bands appear. Am I just trying to get too big a character? I even tried using a 72 point font with the same width and renaming it as a 144 (for the screen font) but I still got the color bands; which by the way also cause an unrecoverable crash. question 3: can you edit a font with Fontz larger than 72 points? When I try the screen only shows the upper window and I cannot figure out how to call up the lower editing window. Did I miss a keyboard command in the manual that would allow jumping between windows. I've tried moving the upper window with the mouse but unfortunately the lower scroll bar and corner box are below the bottom of the screen. Can I do the things I am trying with a color monitor, or is it only possible on monochrome, or isnt it feasible at all??? please help. thanks. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 41 Tue Oct 18, 1988 S.WHITNEY (Forwarded) WordUp seems to crash when I try to to load a file which uses fonts that aren't in my current ASSIGN.SYS file. (For example, I can't load any documents when I use the FONTZ! ASSIGN.SYS file which only has Camelot.) Also, it crashes when the default font isn't available. Wouldn't it be possible to make it use the first font it finds if the one it wants can't be accessed? The current state of things makes transfering files between people difficult. Perhaps the probelm is just that Dutch or Swiss weren't available. At any rate, you may wish to fix this bug. (My WordUp is version 1.0 7-1 release.) Thanks, Steve Whitney ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 42 Thu Oct 20, 1988 G.ANDERSON (Forwarded) S.WHITNEY, I found the same problem with early releases of WordUp, I suggest you call Neocept (or just send in your disks) and ask about it. I believe that problem was fixed with the new release. For EVERYBODY: Neocept is now shipping the newest version of WordUp to the dealers. Anyone who's wanted to buy the best multi-font ST program available can now get it. They had delayed all shipping until this revision was finished but are now sending it out to dealers and those who ordered it directly. There are a number of improvements and enhancements in this version. It's a bit faster, you can now import NEO/PI1/PI2 pictures and have them 'auto grey-scale' on the screen and print out. This one is worth getting folks..... Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 43 Thu Oct 20, 1988 S.WHITNEY (Forwarded) I think I'll do just that. Thanks. Auto gray-scale, eh? Sounds snazy! --Steve ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 44 Thu Oct 20, 1988 V.AVERELLO [Vince] (Forwarded) Is the latest version a free upgrade for those of us who already own the best multi-font graphic word-processor ? If not what's the upgrade fee ? Vince ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 45 Thu Oct 20, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) Is there any improvement in using .IMG files? I have the 7/1/88 Release and it still has problems. BTW, If you want to get the most satisfaction from WordUp, use it with G+PLUS (ver. 1.2) from Codehead Software. Fantastic improvement in performance, especially marking a block with the mouse. -Craig W. Daymon P.S. Making a guess based on a recent upload fromMike Fulton, it seems Neocept is planning to add Easy-Draw file support. Any official word? ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 46 Fri Oct 21, 1988 S.WHITNEY (Forwarded) Yea! If WordUp had Easy Draw metafile support, it would be unstoppable. I'm certainly glad I bought it! If I had MS Write, I'd still be sitting with exactly teh same program I bought, knowing that it would _never_ have graphics... Oh, yes. One question... I just scaled some monochrome fonts to color using FONTZ!, but WordUp seems to think they're twice as tall as they really are. That makes things look really bad. (Easy Draw knows how tall they really are, so I think the problem is in WordUp.) Also, if I use too many fonts in the same document, it crashes (two or three bombs, I can't remember.) My questions are: Are these known bugs in the 7-1 realease, and have they been fixed in the newest release? I imagine the fonts work prop[erly in monochrome, but I don't have a monochrome monitor. Thanks, Steve\ ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 47 Sat Oct 22, 1988 S.NIES (Forwarded) I *defintely* agree with the need for Easy-drw support. I originally bought WordUp since I thought that it had it. Since my articles are mostly engineering related (meaning that my drawings are *alot* more complex than I can do in a paint program), I now write the text using 1st word, draw the pictures using easy-draw, and then import everything into Timeworks publisher for final printout. If easydraw support was included with Wordup, Wordup would probably become my most used program. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 48 Sat Oct 22, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) Well, as it stands now, I can use the OUTPRINT program with Easy-Draw to print to the screen and the n use a SNAPSHOT utility to get the picture into DEGAS format. That way I can use it with WordUp. I was just guessing on what might be up at Neocept. I'd really like to see that problem with .IMG files fixed. Now that II have the 1.82 version of IMG-Scan, I'd like to use the high-res scans in WordUp. -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 49 Sat Oct 22, 1988 JEFFWILLIAMS [Jeff W.] (Forwarded) Shelby or Mike, Could you check to see if you still have an order for 6 WordUp!'s for our store (Software Plus in Wheeling, Illinois)? It has been so long ago when we ordered it (almost 3 months ago?). We probably would have sold all six of them by now if they had been ready earlier. If anything has happened to the order (like if it fell into a crack or something), you can verify the order (if necessary) by calling the store at (312) 520-1717. Thanks. Jeff ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 50 Mon Oct 31, 1988 K.STRATTON (Forwarded) NEOCEPT, I was just reading through the messages about WORDUP and saw a couple users were experiencing the same problem I had with 'Out of Memory' message when trying to boot up. I have a 520 with 1 Meg,Drive A is a DSSD GTS-100, Drive B SF354. I copied the Program Disk and the System disk (single sided) to one double sided disk. When I boot up with the new double sided disk I get the "Out of Memory" error. Any help you can give me is appreciated. By the way I have Version 1.00 3/22/88. Thanks, Ken Stratton ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 51 Tue Nov 15, 1988 S.WHITNEY (Forwarded) Okay, Neocept. I just saw the new verison of WordUp at my local dealer, but I haven't been informed of how to upgrade yet. What gives? I paid my $90 and I'd really like to have a safe version of the program that will work with the color fonts I make using Fontz! I have the July 1st version since that was the last advertised version. Shall I just send in my disks? I guess so... --Steve ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 52 Wed Nov 16, 1988 M.KNAPP1 (Forwarded) What's happened to Neocept? I tried calling the numbers printed in my Wordup manual and they've been disconnected. I sent in my disks to get the NEC P6 driver quite awhile ago and I'm starting to get worried! ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 53 Thu Nov 17, 1988 DHAMM (Forwarded) The last letter I received from Neocept the phone no. on the letterhead was (805)482-4446 Hope that helps. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 54 Thu Nov 17, 1988 SANDY.W [SysOp] (Forwarded) Hmmm...they are at Comdex this week, so I know they are still around. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 55 Sat Nov 19, 1988 G.ANDERSON (Forwarded) You should be able to upgrade (if you registered when you bought the initial copy) by sending in your original disks (not sure of the charge, but I'm sure it's not over $5). They've been busy redoing WordUp and adding some new features (color to greyscale on the screen for PI1,2 and NEO picts, end notes instead of foot notes (seems more wanted them than footnotes) and generally cleaning it up & killing the last of the 'bugs' in the program. Try the 805- 842-4446 number after Comdex ends, you should be able to reach them. Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 56 Sun Nov 20, 1988 HS (Forwarded) You maybe called the old numbers. They moved back in June or July... ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 57 Sun Nov 20, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) I don't mind that Neocept doesn't send out notices of UPDATES, only for UPGRADES (of which, all so far have been UPDATES), but why don't they send out notices of the new numbers and addresses? I REALLY like WordUp and it's not so bad for me since I'm on GEnie so much, but I have friends that don't have accounts and have bought WordUp. -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 58 Mon Nov 28, 1988 NEOTRON (Forwarded) Hello everyone! This is Mike @ Neocept with a fresh list of replies to messages in this topic. Sorry if it has been a while since my last message. As I have said before, however, if you need a quick response to something, call us directly. Our tech support number is (805) 482-0313, and it is open Monday-Thursday, 10am- 6pm. ------------ Although it has been posted here before, it seems that some people are not aware of our address and phone number since we moved in July. This information is given below. NEOCEPT Orders & Info: (805) 482-4446 547 Constitution, Unit A Technical Support: (805) 482-0313 Camarillo, CA 93010 Fax: (805) 388-1521 ------------ As a general note about replies to messages: When people tell us about program bugs or suggest new features or changes to existing ones, we add anything new to a list of these items which we keep handy at all times. When we are fixing bugs, or looking to add new features or change existing ones, we examine this list to figure out which ideas take top priority. Each idea must be balanced against the rest of the program, and the amount of time required to work on it must be considered. Please be assured that we appreciate all of your input, even if we are not always able to act on right away, or even at all. ------------ To EVERYONE: The 7/1/88 release is the same as the 6/21/88 release, except for the installation program and the arrangement of files on the disks. The program itself is dated 6/21/88. ------------ To EVERYONE: The draft printer drivers which have been mentioned in this topic are a new feature added to the regular printer drivers. This is for the 9-pin printers only, not the 24-pin printers. The draft mode works by using a single pass of the print head instead of two passes, this sacrifices print quality for more print speed. No speed would be gained on the 24-pin printers, since they only use a single pass to start with. The choice of draft/final mode is made by using the INSTALL PRINTER desk accessory. There are two buttons on this for DRAFT & FINAL print modes. The printer driver checks this setting and decides which print mode to use. If the INSTALL PRINTER accessory is not present, the setting defaults to DRAFT, unless some other program has changed it. We include a program called SETPRINT which reads the DESKTOP.INF file at boot time and sets the INSTALL PRINTER information. This way, if you don't have enough memory to keep the desk accessory loaded all the time, you can SAVE DESKTOP with it loaded and set the way you wanted, then the SETPRINT program will read and set the desired information. ------------ TO EVERYONE: WordUp is shipping again, and has been for the last several weeks. To those who were inconvenienced because it was unavailable, we apologize. We can't ship what we don't have, however, and we were sold out of manuals. Until we could finish the revisions to the manual and get it reprinted, we were unable to ship. Again, sorry for the delay. ----------- TO EVERYONE: If you haven't sent in your warranty card, please do so now. We have started to send an upgrade announcement to every registered user. We are sending out a batch each day until we get everyone. This announcement will contain a complete description of all the changes made in each release of our products up to the present. There will be a small fee for shipping and handling, and new manuals will also be available for an additional small fee. WARNING: DON'T SEND YOUR DISKS FOR AN UPGRADE BEFORE RECEIVING THIS ANNOUCEMENT. AS OF 11/30/88, ALL DISKS SENT IN FOR UPGRADES WITHOUT THE PROPER UPGRADE FORM WILL BE RETURNED! ALTHOUGH THE NEW VERSION OF WORDUP IS ALREADY AVAILABLE IN STORES, PLEASE DO NOT GET UPGRADES FROM DEALERS OR FRIENDS. THERE IS ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTATION REQUIRED THAT YOU WILL NEED, AND IT IS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE README FILE CONTAINED ON THE WORDUP DISKS FROM A STORE PACKAGE. WITHOUT THIS INFORMATION, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY INSTALL THE PROGRAM. PLEASE WAIT FOR THE ANNOUCEMENT. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To CHARDIMAN, msg 5 --- We have the idea about including the trailing spaces when a word is selected in our list of bugs to fix/features to add. I can't say for sure it will be changed, but we always give everything careful consideration. As for being able to replace with format symbols as well as search, we have that idea in our list also. We just have to figure out the best way to handle it. TO C.DAYMON, msg 6 --- Regarding the problem with moving the cursor with the mouse, we are aware of it. It happens on lines where things are centered or right justified with tabs. However, the keyboard cursor commands work fine, so we suggest you use them. To S.WOO, msg 7 & M.SQUIRE, msg 8 --- Thanks for the info regarding the working directory not being saved correctly. I'll look into it. TO TIM.BARR, msg 20 --- Landscape print mode is not planned at this time. However, the idea has been added to our list. Just the concept of printing text is not difficult, but when you add in the fact that most 9-pin printers do not use square pixels, you realize that it would require different fonts to be done correctly. Not to mention all the work for rotating graphics and what not. Landscape mode must be done piece by piece, it's not handled automatically by the system. TO R.BARRET, msg 23 -- It sounds as though you are getting draft-mode print outs. See the note above about draft/final print modes. TO P.GENOVESE, msg 27 -- We would like to say that we have not sent out upgrade notices because the changes to the programs have thus far been minor ones, for the most part. We are preparing an upgrade notice right now, which will go out to all registered users soon. TO C.DAYMON, msg 34 -- The draft/final abilities of our printer drivers are completely independent of the program used. Easy-Draw and our printer drivers should work fine. The printer drivers aren't really accessed via pipelines. GEM simply passes control to the desired driver's starting point. Other than using the correct workstation ID, it's basically the same as doing screen output. Regarding your problems with the IMG files, we have not had any troubles with any file we have tried. The only thing I can think of is maybe there wasn't enough memory for the graphic and it wasn't properly detected. Another possibility is this: I've heard that some of the IMG files being created do not set all of the header information correctly. Perhaps this is the case, and WordUp is choking on it. Another question, does the file seem to load completely, and then crash when it tries to display it, or does it crash during disk access? Also see below. ---------- TO EVERYONE: When you tell us about a program bug, we need complete information about what happened if you expect us to be able to do anything about it. Please include the following information when making a report of a bug: computer used memory size disk drives used monitor/resolution used auto-folder programs used desk accessories used types & sizes of files involved fonts loaded, especially if different from basic installation your address, home & work phone numbers ----------- To RANDOM2, msg 41 --- Your dealer should have gotten you your WordUp by now. Incidentally, unless your dealer orders directly from us, there is a distributor in the middle of things as well. As for the number of messages in this topic, I would have to say that there aren't more messages because I haven't been online as often as I should to answer messages. WordUp has been reasonably successful so far, and we foresee doing even better in the future. TO G.HILBERT, MSG 42 -- You should have received your disks back by now. It generally takes anywhere from 1 to 3 weeks or so to get things turned around, depending on what has been going on around here. Fontz! has a limit of 300 dots tall. It will not let you create a font taller than that. The point size depends on the device used. 300 dots would be 72 point for 300dpi laser, or 150 points for Epson FX 9-pin printer. However, a bug exists that will push the bottom window offscreen when very large fonts are edited/created. This has only been noticed recently, and I am looking into fixing it. I haven't tried anything over 64 points with WordUp, so I can't say how it would work. 64 Point seemed to work fine, however. If you are getting weird bands on the screen when you use a certain font, I recommend you stop what you are doing. That should never happen, and it means that something is accessing the wrong part of memory. Also, WordUp should not be showing you the "6x6 System" as a font choice unless something is messed up in your document. Without looking at it myself, I can't really say what the problem would be. If you want to send me a disk with sample files on it, I'd be glad to take a look. Give me call at tech. support (# & hours at start of this msg) if you are interested. TO S.WHITNEY, msg 43 --- This has been said here before, but WordUp will crash if you try to access a font that isn't there. So don't do that. If a document crashes when you first load it, this is probably what is wrong. Also, do not remove ATTR12HI.FNT from the system, as WordUp always wants this font to be there. We would love to fix this bug, and hope to do so soon. msg 48 --- Regarding your scaled fonts and WordUp, I cannot speculate on the problem without seeing it or having more information. Please contact us directly. As for crashing if there are too many fonts, I've had as many as 15 or so on the same screen at once, with no problem. It may have crashed for some other reason, such as wanting a font that wasn't there. Also, please give us complete information about your system and what happened, as mentioned earlier in this message. msg 53 --- See the info above about our sending upgrade notices. To C.DAYMON, msg 47 --- We want to add support for Easy-Draw files, but right now there are other new features & bug fixes which we consider to be more important. Oh, and please don't ask what new features we are working on, because we can't tell you until it's available. msg 59 --- regarding our address & phone number, see above. We hadn't sent out notices of the change because we can still get mail sent to the old address, and because the phone numbers had a recording with the new numbers, at least until very recently. Also, the upgrade notice we are sending out has this information on it, and it was originally intended to go out sooner. To K.STRATTON, msg 52 --- Ken, please call us directly to deal with your problem. It's too difficult and slow trying to do it online for this kind of thing. See start of message for tech support phone # & hours. To G.ANDERSON, msg whatever... --- Gregg, please do not take this the wrong way, but I would appreciate it if you did not suggest to people that they can just send in their disks for an upgrade. Except for disks sent in with an upgrade form, we would prefer that nobody send us disks without contacting us first. We appreciate all the help you give to people here and elsewhere, but please make sure you tell people to call or write us before sending in their disks. (You see, it seems we get these occasional rushes where it seems like everybody and his brother sends in their disks for an upgrade, even when we haven't said anything ourselves. A while back, we could handle this because there weren't as many people out there who had our products. But as our userbase has grown, it has become increasingly difficult to keep up with doing upgrades like this. Some people who have sent in disks recently have noticed that it has taken a month or more to get it turned around. We would like to do better, and with the upgrade mentioned above, it will be done differently.) Mike Fulton, NEOCEPT *s ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 59 Mon Nov 28, 1988 NEOTRON (Forwarded) Oops! It seems that Flash messed up the address and phone number in the previous message when I reformatted it in the text editor. Here is this information again, in more readable form... NEOCEPT Orders & Info: (805) 482-4446 547 Constitution, Unit A Technical Support: (805) 482-0313 Camarillo, CA 93010 Fax: (805) 388-1521 Tech. Support hours are Mon-Th, 10am-6pm Mike Fulton, NEOCEPT ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 60 Tue Nov 29, 1988 SANDY.W [SysOp] (Forwarded) Mike - you need to put a space in front of anything you don't want GEnie to reformat. Here it is again. NEOCEPT Orders & Info: (805) 482-4446 547 Constitution, Unit A Technical Support: (805) 482-0313 Camarillo, CA 93010 Fax: (805) 388-1521 ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 61 Tue Nov 29, 1988 DARLAH (Forwarded) Or save by typing *SN <-- save no format ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 62 Tue Nov 29, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) Mike, The main .IMG file I was having problems with was BIGWOODY.IMG. Yes, this is a very BIG file. I finally wrote a program that would print the picture and it took approx. four 8.5x11 sheets. The quality is fantastic though and that says a lot since it was generated by IMG Scan. Looking forward to the notice and new version. Were hard-spaces added? -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 63 Thu Dec 08, 1988 S.WHITNEY (Forwarded) Okay, here's the configuration I had trouble with FONTZ rescaled fonts int. I have a color 1 Meg 520ST with two double sided disk drives. I downloaded some Macintosh fonts which had already been converted to GDOS fonts for a monochrome monitor. I then scaled them to the medium resoulation screen and added them to my assign.sys file. When I tried to use them in WordUp, they showed up fine, but the cursor was twice as tall as it needed to be, and the lines were soaced asthough the characters were two times too tall. I only had this problem with WordUp (July 1 release) -- Easy Draw had no problem with the fonts. I had loaded approximately eight additional fonts (besides Swiss, Dutch, and Typewriter) in about three sizes each. --Steve ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 64 Thu Dec 08, 1988 S.NIES (Forwarded) Have the upgrade notices been mailed yet? I still havent received mine yet. But Ill wait for sending in the disks until I do as you requested. I have both WordUp and Fontz. BTW, would you'all consider fixing a pet peeve of mine? I really dont like the equals sign used as a menu separator, and really dislike having names embedded in separators. Would you consider changing the menu resource to just use the normal dash separators? The problem is that the menus look really cluttered, making it harder for me to ascertain what is a menu choice and what is just decoration (not much harder, just annoying). Also, what is the difference between the 'Quit Wordup' and 'Quick Quit' menu options (dont have manual at home so I might have called these the wrong names). ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 65 Sat Dec 10, 1988 G.ANDERSON (Forwarded) The 'Quick Quit' will send you directly back to GEM, nothing else. The Quit first checks to see if you've made any changes to the Doc in RAM, if so it asks you to save first then quits. That's the main difference. As far as I know, the notices haven't been mailed out yet.. Hang in there since it shouldn't be too much longer... Gregg (not directly associated with Neocept) Anderson ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 66 Sat Dec 10, 1988 P.R.SKLENAR [Pat----] (Forwarded) I bought the 10/12/88 (1.30) version at my local dealer. Is this the same as the new version you are waiting to upgrade to? Or is there a newer one comng soon?? Pat---- ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 67 Tue Dec 13, 1988 G.ANDERSON (Forwarded) Hang in there, if you sent your warranty card in you should be getting a flyer any day now. Fill it out and they'll get back with you on upgrades. Neocept is constantly upgrading the program, but I think 1.3 is one of the 'mid' release numbers. A few more weeks should see you with the latest version. Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 68 Fri Dec 16, 1988 TIM.BARR (Forwarded) Pat-- According to the material I just received from Neocept, the 10-12-88 incarnation of version 1.30 is the latest version. This is the one that some of us have been waiting for ( I have ver 1.0 7-1-88 myself ). What are your thoughts on version 1.3? Do you like it? Tim Barr ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 69 Sat Dec 17, 1988 P.R.SKLENAR [Pat----] (Forwarded) Tim, I'm new enough to the GDOS scene that I'm prbably impressed way too easily, but - Yes, I LOVE IT!! My only problem is that I'm running on a 1Meg 1040. With G+Plus and my other autoboot programs and the 3-5 Acc's that I almost always have available, I have about 720k free when I go to run WordUp. Hence, I have to be REAL selective regarding what fonts I have in my ASSIGN.SYS (This is where G+Plus pays for itself 10 times over!!). I have found that I have to remove almost everything from the \AUTO folder and shut down most of my ACC's to have enough room to load a graphic. I am now debating whether to upgrade my 1040 to 2.5 or 4Meg or whether to bye one of the Atari DTP packages (Mega4 & Laser combo). My current printer is a Panasonic KX-P1524. It's a 24Pin printer with 360x360 dpi capability. I'm using the EPSONLQ.SYS driver currently but would prefer to see a driver made available to take advantage of the 1524's TRUE capabilities. Later! Have a good Holiday season!! Pat---- ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 70 Sat Dec 17, 1988 C.DAYMON (Forwarded) Pat, Is the 360x360 mode of the Panasonic compatible with the NEC series? Since, I think, NEC was the first to support this resolution, I would hope that is the case. Do you know if the Star 2400 is NEC compatible? I think it also supports a 360x360 density. Your problem with graphics may be related to disk space. WordUp MUST write the graphic files out to disk in .IMG format inorder to print them. At least that was the case with the 1.0 versions. It also might insist on writing the graphic files out to the same disk it was booted from. -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 71 Sat Dec 17, 1988 P.R.SKLENAR [Pat----] (Forwarded) Craig, I sincerely suspect that the "out of space" problem I have is Memory. I run WordUp (Indeed most of my software) from a harddrive. I have over 2.5Meg free on the particular partition I run WordUp from so I belive I have MORE than enough space for that. Besides, if it was disk related, why would removing ACC's and reducing the AUTO's allow graphics to be used?? Regarding the Panasonic vs NEC. I very nearly bought an NEC P5300. A very nice printer, but not easy to GET. several dealers weren't able to get the NEC for me and they WERE able to get the Panasonic. There is nothing in the printer manual about compatability with the NEC graphics. It claims to be compatable with the Epson LQ1500 series, the IBM ProPrinter series and the Diablo 630 as well as it's own capabilities. The Epson LQ's are, I believe, capable of graphics at 180dpi. Hence that seems to be the best I can do at this point. That is, unless NeoCept comes out with a 360x360dpi driver for the Panasonic KX-P1524 (hint hint). Later! Pat---- ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 72 Sun Dec 18, 1988 D.N.WHEELER (Forwarded) Beginning November 1st, all Epson LQ printers (LQ-850,950,1050, etc.) support 360 x 360 graphics. The ROM upgrade is available for around $60 from Epson dealers. --Doug ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 73 Sun Dec 18, 1988 M.EASTER (Forwarded) I am new to the world of GDOS, and got EZDRAW with SUPER CHARGER, G+PLUS, and WORDUP recently. I am running a 1040 ST with 1 DSDD drive, mono monitor, and Citizen MSP 10 (9 pin) printer. (WORDUP ver 1.30, release 10/12/88) Here are my questions: I assume I can dump any fonts from the WORDUP installation which I don't need with my setup, such as those for medium resolution. Is this true? I assume I can move, copy, etc. the appropriate WORDUP PGM, RSC, GLO to other disks as is described under the SLM 804 installation. That is, I assume that all the copy protection you want/need is taken care of by the special ARCing. Is that true? In Doug Wheeler's info on GDOS, he mentions that some Epson compatibles have the ability to provide a "square" aspect ratio, that is, 144 x 144 instead of the assymetric 120 x 144 "vanilla" Epson graphics mode. The Citizen MSP-10 seems to have this capacity, both in a 1 to 1 (72 x 72) and a 2 to 1 (144 x 144) density. Is there a printer driver at Neocept that is able to use this slightly higher density in the horizontal axis? It gets accessed by Esc * m n, with m controlling the graphics density (5, the 1 to 1 "plotter", 7 the 2 to 1 ) and n being the line width in dots. Another printer driver question re the assymetric mode; the Citizen claims to be able to print up to 240 dots per inch in a quadruple density mode. I assume that your "draft" mode uses single (60 dpi) density, and that your "final" uses high speed double density or double density, both of which are 120 dpi. In the Citizen, the high speed double density and quadruple density allow the dots to "overlap" by spacing at 1/2 or 1/4 dots from each other. The non-GDOS printer drivers for GFA DRAFT are able to access all of these densities, I think. Is there a GDOS driver that takes advantage of this quadruple (240) density? Now, about vertical density: the Citizen also claims to be programmable down to n/216 lines per inch. Does this mean that one could squeeze 216 dpi in the vertical axis, obviously overlapping, perhaps 1/3 dot? That is, instead of the 144. I know that I'm asking a lot from a little 9 pin printer, but it would seem that it could do some or all of the above, albeit pretty slowly. Is the only difference between the printer drivers FX80.SYS and FX80_512.SYS that _512. puts all the file it will print on the disk prior to printing and FX80. just puts the graphics on disk? Have you guys considered a "print from disk" function a la WordWriter ST? It would seem that most files which are going to be printed have been saved to disk, and then you need to take up room somewhere with the working printer file, besides having the same information in the program's ram. Discouraging the use of a print spooler (msg 1) because of the ram it uses doesn't make as much sense now that there is Multidesk to give access to accessory spoolers, to say nothing of desk accessory spoolers which are removable and resizable, such as SI RAM. (as well as purgeable) It is my intention to create "lean" setups, combining say 2 point sizes in a face, or 1 point 1 face, a larger point another face to minimize ram and disk space needed, and choose what I need with G+PLUS, that way having enough ram to be able to use choices between draft and final with the control (printer install) acc via multidesk, as well as utilize a print spooler (any problems using SI RAM?) so I don't need to stare into space while my poor little printer does its thing. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 74 Tue Dec 27, 1988 A.RUBALCABA (Forwarded) Just want to say thank you to the people at Neotron. I just got my upgrade information for WUP and Fontz and their upgrade offer is very generous. Thanks again guys. I will strongly support you and your products. a. rubalcaba ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 75 Sun Jan 15, 1989 D.S.HARRISON (Forwarded) I just bought TurboJet, and it really speeds up my DeskJet. I have a couple of questions. First, after finishing printing a 1 page document, where only the top half of the page is used, there's about a one minute delay before the paper is ejected. This is followed by the formfeed and ejection of a second page. I first noticed this in a program I'm working on, but Output.prg does this also, even when "No final formfeed" is selected. In my application, I simply open the workstation, print the metafile, and then issue a v_updwk command before closing the workstation. The Migraph driver and Timeworks driver did this properly, i.e. eject the current page immediately, without formfeeding a second. Second, at 300 dpi and in high quality mode, there is occasionally a break in lines drawn at angles. Third, just as a matter of curiosity, was there any particular reason to define the page width for the DeskJet as 8.53 inches? Apparently you can only print in an 8 inch wide area, with 0.25 inch margins on either side. Thanks, -Doug ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 76 Mon Jan 16, 1989 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 20:36 EST Neocept, I just wanted to state, for what it's worth, how disappointed I am that you haven't gotten around to contacting me by mail and let me know how to upgrade my "Word Up" Version 1.0, 7/1/88 Release for the newer Version 1.3 which I believe has been out since November. I assure you that I am a registed user of your product and that you have mailed updates to me in the past. I am a very patient person, but I think two months is enough time to get around to notifying me about how to get the newest version. If you wish to contact me by mail, my address is: Michael A. Squire 5050 Bluffview Drive Dayton, OH 45424-2507 Thank you for any assistance that you may be able to offer me on this matter. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 77 Tue Jan 17, 1989 S.WHITNEY at 02:13 PST Ditto! I've seen the new version in my local computer store for about two months, but since I bought your product early, I can't have an update. You sent me a form asking which version number I had. I returned it with 1.00, July 1, but I have heard nothing since. Steve Whitney ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 78 Fri Jan 20, 1989 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 19:24 EST Neocept, Thank you for your prompt response to my recent message. I just received the upgrade form in this evening's mail and will send the disks, index pages, and check out to you by UPS tomorrow. ..... Mike ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 79 Tue Jan 24, 1989 NEOTRON at 20:18 PST Hi everyone, I'll be back with a detailed message with responses to the last set of messages, but I wanted to leave a quickie with some upgrade info. In the middle of December, we sent out a batch of upgrade notices. After we did this, we discovered that about 20% of our warranty cards had not been entered into our database as our secretary had informed us. At this point, I started entering warranty cards myself. It took a few weeks to get caught up, but we now have all the warranty cards entered, and we are in the middle of sending out a second batch of upgrade notices y to those people who missed getting one in the first batch. We should have these all sent sometime next week, so please be patient if you haven't got one yet. We are trying as hard as we can. Also, if you did get an upgrade announcement, but haven't received it (the upgrade) in the mail yet, we had so many come in at once that we couldn't keep up with sending them back out. But we hope to be caught up by the end of the week. Well, the next message from me will answer the last group of questions. It will probably be put up tomorrow night, as it's starting to 7 et to the time when I get to go home. Bye for now. Mike Fulton, Neocept ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 80 Thu Jan 26, 1989 STAN50 at 22:40 EST Sorry if this has been asked and answered before, but can neocept now accept gem files (a la easydraw) C And I have read that footnote are no longer on the bottom of the page but are at the back. Is this true? ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 81 Thu Jan 26, 1989 NEOTRON at 21:05 PST Hi everyone. This is Mike Fulton @ Neocept with another exciting episode of "Answer the Messages" .............. First of all, I want to tell everyone that we have changed our telephone technical support line hours... again. The new hours are: Monday-Thursday, 11am-12noon & 3pm-5pm, PST Note: PST is 3 hours behind EST The reason for the change is pretty simple. We really don't have that many technical support calls. The technical support lines are manned mostly by myself, with Shelby getting the occasional call. We are the programmers here, and when calls are coming in at all hours, we are frequently interrupted from programming work. So what we have done is set aside a particular time which we dedicate just to technical support work. That way, we can work during the rest of the day without interruption. The two different time periods are designed so that no matter where you live, you should be able to call during one or the other. If you call during other parts of the day, an answering machine will pick up the line. (You can leave a message, if you like.) Another note on technical support. I frequently talk to people, or read letters, about spending hours and hours on some problem they have been having with one of our products. Please call technical support if you are having this sort of trouble. There is no sense in spending hours over a problem when a 5 minute call to us might provide the answer. If your time is worth anything at all to you, you should call. At the very least, write us a letter. ........... To C.DAYMON, msg 62 Craig, we know of a problem with IMG files not displaying on screen correctly if they decompress to greater than 32K. They will print ok, they just are not shown right on screen. I discovered this by playing around with a Degas picture which had been 16-level grey half-toned by Migraph's SuperCharger. This produced a 64K file which decompresses to 128K. This file would not show correctly on screen. The portion of the picture below the 32K point shows up shifted to the left or right, depending on what text is in the neighborhood. To S.WHITNEY, msg 63 Steve, if a font's ascent line/descent line values are messed up, then WordUp will do some funny line spacing and cursor heights. Easy-Draw doesn't deal with text quite as closely as we do, so they use a different method of getting the height of charaters. Use FONTZ! to make sure these values are correct. To S.NIES, msg 64 I'm afraid that I don't think we could change the menus the way you want. But if you have a resource editor, you can do it yourself. The menus are in the very first tree. Just make sure you don't change the ordering of the menu items, or you will get the wrong commands when you choose menu items. To anyone-re 360x360 driver To date, any 24-pin printer I've ever heard of doing 360x360 is using the same protocol that NEC started, including the latest batch of Epson LQ printers. In fact, Epson has a rom upgrade available to allow older LQ printers to print at 360x360. As far as our having a 360x360 driver, watch this space for future announcements. to M.EASTER, msg 73 A Gem program will only load fonts for the devices it needs. If you are running in high resolution, then the medium resolution fonts will not be loaded. You can remove them from your disk to save disk space, but it won't make any difference with memory usage. The encrypted arc format used by the files on the WordUp disks is not really intended as a form of copy protection. It's more a means of making sure you use the tools we provide to do an installation. If we had to worry about everybody using ARC.TTP directly, or using different ARC shells, it would be a technical support nightmare. This gets rid of that problem. Yes, it would be possible to do a 144x144dpi printer driver, but we have no plans for this. Why not? It would provide only marginal improvement over 120x144dpi, and may not be supported by all printers. When 240dpi graphics are done on a 9-pin printer, you cannot fire pins on 2 dots in a row on the same line. Only 1 out of every 2 can be set. Also, the print heads on a 9-pin printer are spaced 1/72" apart. The draft mode uses high-speed double-density graphics mode, and only prints odd-numbered lines. Final mode uses normal-speed double-density graphics mode. When you do 1/216" linefeeds to do three passes per line, you overlap dots way too much. I have seen 240x216dpi printer drivers for 9-pin printers, and under some circumstances they work pretty well. A cad program, or something like that which is printing line art, does pretty good, because it has more places where dots can be placed. But when you are printing denser things, like WordUp's text or graphics, the overlapping of dots becomes self- defeating. You end up wasting printer ribbons by printing on the same part of the paper several times. On a 9-pin printer you can't really get any better than 120x72 dots per inch without overlapping (or 144x72 dots on printers with the plotter mode). Even at 120x144dpi there is a fair amount of vertical dot overlapping. Plus, fonts for 240x216 would be 3 times larger, memorywise, than their 120x144 counterparts. That's getting close to the size of laser fonts, and is out of the range of 512K users. Even for 1024K users, that's not workable for most people. All GEM printer drivers must have a graphic file on disk in order to print it. The program doing the printing must make sure it is there, not the printer driver. GEM printer drivers are designed to use temporary files on disk when they run out of memory for calculating a page. The 512K versions of the printer drivers are designed to use less memory and go to temporary files almost immediately. That's really the only difference. I discourage the use of a printer spooler because they simply aren't very practical unless they are at least 128K, and preferably even larger. It doesn't matter if it's desk accessory, or whatever. Graphics printing involves a lot of data, and unless you have at least 2 megabytes, you really don't have enough memory to use a spooler. To D.S.HARRISON, msg 75 We are aware of the problem with TurboJet printing extra pages on the DeskJet. In fact, I just fixed that bug this afternoon. When we made changes to the package for version 1.10, it was to correct a problem with legal-size paper not working correctly in the LaserJet. We fixed the problem, and made the same change to the DeskJet driver. Unfortunately, there is a difference between the LaserJet and the DeskJet that we didn't know about. When the LaserJet receives blank lines of graphics after the end of the page, it just discards them. It can do this because it waits until it has an entire page before printing it. However, the DeskJet prints each part of a page as it comes in. So when blank lines go past the bottom of the page, it feeds the current sheet and loads a new one which gets sent through blank. Well, I fixed the problem so that the DeskJet driver now works right with legal or letter size paper, without feeding blank pages. Regarding your comment about breaks in lines drawn at angles, I'd have to see an example to know what you mean. However, like any other step-feeding dot matrix printers, the DeskJet does occasionally linefeed a little too much, which causes a hairline between two rows of graphics. This is a mechanical cause, not software. Maybe this is what you saw. To TURBOJET/DESKJET users If you have received an upgrade notice but haven't sent in in yet, we want you to know that we will upgrade TurboJet disks to the new version 1.20, 1-26-89. The upgrade form lists version 1.10, so disregard that and upgrade if you don't have version 1.20. Since most people using TurboJet already had version 1.10, we have only sent out one upgrade with this version so far. As of today, all upgrades which are still being processed will get version 1.20. If you have version 1.10, and you have already sent in an upgrade form for other products, but not TurboJet, please be patient. We will be sending out either a separate upgrade notice or just a disk with the new version to all registered TurboJet users. (The decision between notice and free-upgrade disk hasn't been made yet.) Do not send in your disks without an upgrade notice, or they will be returned to you without change. To STAN50, msg 80 WordUp does not support the importing of GEM metafiles (*.GEM) at this time. Maybe in a future version. And yes, footnotes have been changed to endnotes, for a variety of reasons. Instead of appearing at the bottom of the same page as the reference, all the endnotes are printed together at the end of the document. ................. That's all folks! See ya next time, on "Answer The Messages" ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 82 Fri Jan 27, 1989 C.DAYMON at 19:33 EST Hello Mike, Thanks for the reply. Nice to see you folks on-line. I've probably asked this here before, but I keep hoping someone will try it. How about GDOS drivers that would use Publishing Partner fonts? Or at least PP fonts with a slight mod to the files to support font-id's. I'd LOVE to see scalable fonts to use with GDOS. It is SUPPOSED to be just a matter of using the proper drivers (& compatible fonts). It would make for much more flexible text sizing and MUCH less RAM used by fonts. -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 83 Sat Jan 28, 1989 S.NIES at 09:31 EST Hi Mike. I sent in my upgrade notice and $7 quite awhile ago (at least it feels that way, cant really remember :-). Have you received it? I havent received the upgrade yet. Im a registered user of both WordUp and Fontz. In case I missed the database, my address is: Steve Nies 220 Treu Terrace NW Palm Bay, FL 32907 . ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 84 Mon Jan 30, 1989 S.CASAS at 20:08 CST I, too, am a registered user of both WordUp and Fontz and haven't received my WordUp upgrade notice. I would appreciate you (Neocept) sending me the notice....me?...Sam Casas 835 W Buckingham Pl Chicago, Il 60657 thanks you all... ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 86 Tue Jan 31, 1989 CHARDIMAN [Clayt] at 23:23 EST I've run into a few irregularities using the ASCII print function. First of all, tabs seem to be completely ignored, even though the manual specifically states that tabs will be converted to spaces. Also, the manual indicates that the master page can be used with ASCII printing, although only text in the top and bottom margins will be preserved. I tried this, though, using the auto page numbering feature in the second line from the top. What I got was the entire second page, minus the top two lines, tacked on to the bottom of each printed page. I'm using the latest version (1.30) of WordUp. Thanks for your help. -- Clayton ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 87 Thu Feb 02, 1989 RL.BRYANT at 20:16 PST I too have sent in my check for both the upgrade and a new manual....the check has been cashed....I have waited patiently....but I'm getting tired of waiting I know that you are a very small company, but my patience is wearing thin I would like to use what I pay for.......and I'm getting tired of bombing the program every time I change the tabs with more than one document loaded.....please, please, send my disks....btw you don't answer your phone during the hours stated. ....looking forward to the upgrade....... Rich ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 88 Thu Feb 02, 1989 S.WHITNEY at 21:40 PST At le ast you got to send your check. I bought this this last May and i haven't yet received my upgrade notice. Here's my address, Neocept in case you lost it: Steve Whitney 74 Starglow Circle Sacramento, CA 95831 I may call you, though, just to insure promptness. (Also, I may give you my college address so that I can get a crash-proff WordUp with _endnotes_ which I could _really_ use!) --Steve ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 89 Sun Feb 05, 1989 BILLCHASE at 11:38 CST I have run into two interesting "features" of WordUp. The first occurred when I tried to edit a MacWrite file (which had been saved "Text Only"). WU would lock up every third keystroke, no matter what it was. Also, parts of the file were missing. I tried "1st Word" and it went fine! Finally, I deleted the entire first line using "1st Word" and then saved it ASCII and now it works in WordUp, although lots of characters are still missing. Secondly, whenI try to use tabs to position text, most of the time I have to insert a SPACE before the tab seems to have any effect. That is; I move the cursor to the beginning of the line, hit TAB, nothing happens, hit SPACE, then TAB again, text moves to tab stop. Vot giffs? I must say the more I use WordUp, the more I like it. Thanks! Bill ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 90 Mon Feb 06, 1989 C.DAYMON at 19:38 EST Hello Neocept, I have received my 1.3 update to WordUp and have sent in the registration card. This probably wasn't necessary since I am already a registered owner. I included the comment that TRANSPARENT Mode should be used when writing skewed text. This seems to be more the case when skewed text is used with outline text. Otherwise, as in WordUp, parts of the characters are lost. It seems GDOS wants to put out the characters one at a time instead of in a line and this causes skewed characters to overwrite part of previous characters. Using TRANSPARENT Mode will allow this to happen without distorting the display. -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 91 Fri Feb 10, 1989 R.SCHOKMAN at 00:37 EST G'day Neocept, I just received WordUp Version 1.30 and I love it. Thanks for a great program. I did run into one problem though. Deleting an entry from the glossary results in 7 bombs. Has anybody else run into this problem? - Rick - ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 92 Sat Feb 11, 1989 R.NEHEM at 23:28 PST Gee after over a month, I wonder why I haven't received my upgrade for Word Up and Fontz?????? ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 93 Sun Feb 12, 1989 P.GENOVESE at 18:02 PST R.Nehem At least you must have gotten the upgrade notice in the mail. I have been promised 4 seperate times during phone calls to Neocept that they would send me the upgrade notice. I purchased Wordup and Fontz as soon as they became available on the market. Therefore I still have the oldest (Buggiest) versions. I have been calling and waiting since the end of September 1988 for the notices as Neocept says they will not upgrade disks sent in without the notice. They have told me everytime I have called that they have my registration cards and the notice will be sent out right away. So much for support policies. If only there were more companies like MIGRAPH supporting the ST. Oh well here is two more promising but worthless programs in my collection. I knew the risk when I went with the ST back in '85, but I have been a suffering Atari owner only since 1979. Disappointed again Paul Genovese ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 95 Mon Feb 13, 1989 NEOTRON at 23:13 PST Paul Genovese, All of the notices have gone out. If you are in our database then yours has gone out. Assuming your are, I will insure that a second notice is mailed tomorrow just in case the first got lost by US Postal. There are two other potential problems though. First, we may not have your correct address. Please leave us a GE MAIL to NEOTRON with your current address. Secondly, you may not be in our database of registered users. If so, we will mail to you a new set of warranty cards to register your purchase, but obviously we will have to wait for your current address in such case. I hope this attitude and the upgrades make you feel better about your purchase of our products. To All, Its been said here before, but let me say it one more time. There are two reasons for the delays in getting upgrades. First, a large batch of warranty cards were accidentally put in the entered box without being entered into out database. This has been corrected and all notices have been sent. If you have not recieved a notice yet, please contact us now. Second, we just simply underestimated the man power necessary to handle the volume of upgrades. More people have been hired and trained and all upgrades already here will go out by the end of this week. Please allow atleast two more weeks before getting concerned. Shelby Moore - President/Neocept ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 96 Sat Feb 18, 1989 P.GENOVESE at 15:07 PST Shelby I have just received your upgrade notice yesterday in the mail. I assume this is the notice you said you would send in your last message. Since I have not sent you email with my address, I assume you found my registration cards and correct mailing address in your records. I apologize for my sarcastic remarks in my last message, but ST users are not supported like some of our IBM and Apple cousins. I look forward to the upgrade and a long happy relationship with your company, much like I enjoy with Migraph. Paul Genovese ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 97 Tue Feb 21, 1989 R.ANTLEY at 19:02 CST I just recently purchased WordUp v1.3 after I gave up on Microsoft Write. I am using it to create documentation, and I have found that I have a problem with setting the bottom margin. The program simply does not let me set a bottom margin, period. I can set a top margin with no problem. This causes a slight problem with page numbers, since I am accustomed to page numbers at the bottom of the page. My question is: is this a bug or should I look to a problem with my setup? I was using TurboST v1.0, but removed it when I found that WordUp would crash with 2 bombs back to the desktop if I used the down arrow key a lot. I don't know if the removing of TurboST has fixed this problem, since I have avoided using 'excessive' down arrow. Shelby, good program. It can keep up with me typing, something that Microsoft Write couldn't. Wish list: importation of .GEM files. R. Antley ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 98 Sat Feb 25, 1989 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 19:38 EST Shelby, I have waited nearly the requisite two weeks that you specified in your earlier message #95. As of this evening, I have still not received my upgrade to WORD UP (Version 1.30) despite the fact that I received your upgrade notice in late January and promptly mailed it back to you along with my master disks and my upgrade fee, via UPS, on January 21st. I am concerned, concerned that my disks may have been lost and delivered to you, concerned that they may have been misplaced after they arrived at your company. While I acknowledge that you are a small company, I am used to waiting no more than two weeks when I am upgrading software with other companies and become fearful after that period of time that my mailing may have become lost. My name and address is as follows: Michael A. Squire 5050 Bluffview Drive Dayton, OH 45424-2507 Please check into this matter and see if you can locate my order. Thank you for your assistance in this area. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 99 Sun Feb 26, 1989 G.ANDERSON at 17:20 CST Hang in there Mike, I got my upgrade just this week so I know they're doing their best to get the things out to us. It was more than two weeks for mine, how much more I don't recall. Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 100 Thu Mar 02, 1989 G.ANDERSON at 22:12 CST Hi folks, is there any chance of WordUp supporting UltraScript in the near future? While more flexible than GDOS, the fonts are a lot more expensive. I suspect there may be room for both systems within the Atari market, especially since UltraScript & PostScript can't support anything but Lasers and High-End publishing systems... Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 101 Sat Mar 04, 1989 M.EASTER at 13:08 PST Craig Daymon has stated (cat 14, top 13, msg 69) that he would like to see any GDOS applications with spare room on the disk(s) to include a copy of Manual Maker on their disk(s). Applications like WordUp would certainly benefit from that offer. Craig has come up with a dynamite idea and a truly functional program for its implementation. That's a combination that is surely a winner. I just hope someone like Neocept doesn't buy his program before he gets version 2.2 up on the boards! ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 102 Sat Mar 04, 1989 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 16:37 EST Gregg, My WORDUP upgrade to Version 1.30, 11/10/88 Release arrived on Thursday. What an improvement over earlier versions, especially in importing DEGAS PI? files! I'm pulling in graphics with 1.30 that 1.00 couldn't handle. I'm super pleased with how solid WORDUP is getting to be. ... Mike ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 103 Sat Mar 04, 1989 C.DAYMON at 22:41 EST Thanks. I try to justify the praise. The FONTZ! program is one that just might have some space. This is only a suggestion and admittedly really just aids me in distributing the program. Oops, that was supposed to be "I'll try to justify the praise." It's still in the growth phase. -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 104 Sun Mar 05, 1989 S.WOO [Woofer] at 00:19 CST A short question to those with WordUp and lots of memory... What is the actual limit on number of pics one can put in a wordup doc? I have v1.3 and with 800K free I can only have 1 pic with the 24 pin fonts. (degas pi3 picture that is) How many could I have with 2.5 meg and the same configuration? Just wondering if so I can figure out if I should get more memory or new computer. I know I can create individual documents for each part with a picture, but that seems like a real kludge for a report. Steven ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 105 Sun Mar 05, 1989 G.ANDERSON at 14:50 CST I'm not sure of what the RAM restrictions are with WordUp on graphics. I know the program 'saves' the graphic to the disk during printing in order to save RAM.... How much free disk space do you have when you're ready to print? Each graphic file eats up over 32k of space. I'll look the manual (1.30) over and see if it says anything about this. Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 106 Sun Mar 05, 1989 C.DAYMON at 19:46 EST Gregg, I think you'll find the files generated for printing vary in size, but 32k is a fair average estimate. They are .IMG files, so there is no real size restriction. I've seen some as small as 6k and over 200k. I do agree that the real problem is probably disk space. I personally have a 2 DS/DD system and use a blank disk in the drive just catch the files for printing. This is the best I can do, so I'm tied to about 800k max. -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 108 Wed Mar 08, 1989 G.ANDERSON at 03:15 CST Craig, I would have thought that 800k worth of blank disk would have been enough to hold ANY ammount of graphics you'd expect to use in a file smaller than 'war and peace'.... You might want to give Neocept a call on their tech line and ask. If the graphics show up on the screen but not on the page then I'd have to suspect a shortage of disk space, but with a blank DS/DD waiting to hold everything I don't see how that could be...... Let me know what they say. Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 109 Wed Mar 08, 1989 C.DAYMON at 20:06 EST Gregg, It hasn't really been a problem for me because I only have a 1-meg 520 and having 800k of grahpics would be more than WordUp could hold in memory. (Especially including the GDOS printer and screen fonts.) But if I had 4 megs........... -Craig W. Daymon ....... then I'd probably have a hard drive. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 110 Wed Mar 08, 1989 NEOTRON at 19:11 PST Hi everyone, this is Mike Fulton at Neocept. The first thing that I want to talk about is our technical support policy. At first, we offered 60 days of free support after the date of purchase, and allowed users to purchase additional technical support for $25.00 per year. This allowed us to keep the price of our products down a bit by cutting down on technical support costs. However, while this is a very common practice with many other computers, it is very rare on the Atari ST. People complained about the policy so much that we changed it. (Nevermind that the program probably would have been $99.95 instead of $79.95 if we had done it in the first place.) At the time we changed the policy, we decided to refund the additional tech. support that had been ordered by various users. Actually, few people ordered the extra support. We have since had a few complaints from people who say that they should have gotten a refund, but haven't. We went through our records, and found 1 person who hadn't gotten his refund. However, it's possible our records are incomplete. If you paid $25.00 for a year's worth of tech support, and have not received a refund, then you should send a letter requesting the refund along with a photocopy of your canceled check. When we receive this, we will send a refund. Proof of payment must be included, or no refund will be made. Send the letter to: Neocept 547 Constitution, Unit A Camarillo, CA 93010 .................................................. To M.EASTER & C.DAYMON, msg 101 I have had a chance to play around a little bit with Manual Maker, however, it is not really practical for Neocept to consider distributing it with our products, and the same is no doubt true of most other companies. Why not? Well, because then we have to answer tech support questions about somebody else's product. Even if there are notes and messages that say we have nothing to do with it, we'll still get the calls. We cannot afford to spend our resources on something like that. I like the program too, but there's also the question of disk space. We have to pay for each disk that we ship out, and Manual Maker is not a small program. Add the documentation for it, and it starts to take up room that we might use for something else. If we included it while we had room, and then deleted it when we needed the room back, we'd get complaints about it not being there any longer. I think the Genie/Compuserve/Delphi/BBS method of distribution and support is probably the most practical for a non-commercial program like Manual Maker. It's too bad Craig didn't find somebody to market the program for him. .................................................... To S.WOO, msg 104 Steve, the limit of pictures in a document is limited only by available memory. However, the number of pages that can be printed on a page is a different story. There are certain memory requirements of the printer drivers for printing pictures. (These were undocumented, and we had to figure it out by trial and error.) As a result, we leave the system a total of $E00 + ($A00*(freememory/40000)) bytes to the system. Free memory is determined after loading the fonts and printer driver. WordUp leaves the system that amount, and allocates the rest for document storage. The memory left to the system is used by the file selector box (another undocumented goodie), and the printer driver. The printer driver needs $A00 bytes for each picture it prints on the same page. On a 1040ST, I think you should have about 6 pictures on a page before it has problems. After that point, any additional pictures won't be printed. That's with the 9-pin Epson FX fonts. I haven't got exact figures for other setups, but I think you should have at least 125K free for documents with the 24-pin setup. Tell ya what, I'll see if I can figure it out and get back to you. By the way, I've just finished writing a letter to you regarding your fractal program. Should I send it to you at the Manuel,TX address, or the College Station,TX address? I downloaded the program a week or so back and I have some questions about it. .......................................................... Well, that's it for now. See ya all again soon! Mike Fulton, Neocept ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 111 Thu Mar 09, 1989 C.DAYMON at 21:11 EST Thanks Mike, Glad to hear you like it anyway. If you have any constructive comments, I'm listening. I can imagine the problems you might encounter if people expected support. Probably the programs biggest fault is that using GDOS makes it somewhat difficult to configure. Hope to meet you in Anneheim. -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 112 Sat Mar 11, 1989 G.ANDERSON at 13:28 CST Something else to keep in mind is that you shouldn't place any graphics down at the bottom of a page where the picture extends past that page and into the next one. This is sure to cause problems... It's simple to avoid though, once you look for it..... Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 113 Sat Mar 11, 1989 B.DENHEYER1 [brian d] at 22:44 EST I would like to know if there is or ever will be a "printer" driver for word- up which prints postscipt files to disk. This would be great so I could upload output to the apple laser writers we have at school ! ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 114 Sun Mar 12, 1989 S.WOO [Woofer] at 20:08 CST Thanks to all for their input. I read over the messages in this thread and found disabling some of the fonts I don't use as a good solution, at least until I find more memory. I have too many autoboot programs I guess. Thanks for the technical info, Mike. I might be able to use some of that stuff. Please send mail to my College Station address. Hope you liked the fractal program. Steve ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 115 Sun Mar 12, 1989 C.DAYMON at 21:47 EST Brian, I think Migraph is working on such a driver for their GDOS products and there is no reason it shouldn't work with WordUp as well. They also have a JX-80 9- pin color driver in the works. (Although, WordUp doesn't support color assignment unless I missed something.) -Craig W. Daymon ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 116 Wed Mar 15, 1989 R.LEE21 at 23:54 EST This message is for Neocept: Hi, just got WordUp recently, and am somewhat impressed with it, but have a couple of comments and questions for you.... I honestly think this program has great potential, and if continually upgraded and developed can be a very solid word processor. By this I mean of the same caliber as MS Word and Fullwrite Prof. on the Mac, but it's not there yet. I hope you will strive to make WordUp as powerful as they are, as I would be most willing to pay for results of that magnitude. Please keep up the good work. And now for a couple of questions. 1. Any plans to modify the ruler any? I find the tab stops being designated by letters rather confusing, and would think symbols would be much more appropriate. Any thoughts on this? 2. How about implementing hanging indents? That feature would add much to the quality of the program. I'm sure you've seen the way the Mac word processors mentioned before handle them in the ruler. I'll keep my fingers crossed for this one! Thanks, and please continue to support the ST! R.Lee ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 117 Sat Mar 18, 1989 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 12:00 EST Neocept, When I recently upgraded my "Word Up" version 1.00 to 1.30 by returning it to you along with the upgrade fee, I received a new registration card with that upgrade. Do you want me to fill it out and return it if I already sent in the registration card that came with my original purchase? .... Mike ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 118 Sat Mar 25, 1989 MWADE at 20:39 PST I recently purchased Wordup, and I'm having a little problem with mixing text and graphics. The resolution of an Epson LQ-500 printer is 180 dots per inch. If I make a drawing in Degas and import it into my Wordup doc, and then shrink it, it prints out 'blocky'. The picture does not appear to take advantage of the high printer resolution, but rather prints at the resolution of the screen. Is this true? Thanks, Michael ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 119 Sun Mar 26, 1989 G.ANDERSON at 11:22 CST MWADE, keep in mind that Degas picture files are limited to the screen resolution (around 90 dpi with monochrome, I think). There's just no way to make them sharper. .IMG files, on the other hand, can be of much higher resolution and will print out much sharper than they display on the screen. It's the nature of a bit-mapped image to loose detail when you shrink and expand it on the screen, but it should still print out at it's original clarity within WordUp. Your problem is, I think, due to a limitation in Degas rather than in WordUp. I know this didn't help you any, but it may have answered your question, I hope . Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 120 Mon Mar 27, 1989 MWADE at 21:02 PST Thanks, and how about a little more help. Is there any graphics package out there similar to Degas but will let me enter a higher resolution (.IMG)? Thanks again. Michael ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 121 Tue Mar 28, 1989 DOUG.W [ST*SYSOP] at 02:43 EST Touch-Up from Migraph will allow you to create .IMG files as large as your memory allows. --Doug ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 122 Sat Apr 01, 1989 MWADE at 22:56 PST HELP!!!!!! This is undoubtedly the most discouraging point of my ST user career. I purchased Wordup and was delighted by it's ability to mix text and graphics. It worked reasonably well, but when I printed it on my Okidata 192 printer, the results were not as good as I had hoped. I then decided to purchase an Epson LQ-500 printer, after seeing that there was a device driver in WordUp supporting Epson LQ printers. I had trouble unArcing the appropriate files (where is the list of fonts for the printers?) and decided to reinstall WordUp. I have a 1040ST with 2 double sided drives. First, it appears that WordUp requires 2 disks (System and Program) for the LQ printer as the installation bombs due to lack of disk space when installing. Second, after installing, when clicking on the WordUp icon, after reinserting the System disk, I get two cherry bombs and am returned to the desktop, sans mouse movement. Does anyone have any suggestions? Please help, I really like the processor, but I can't use it without my printer. Thanks, Michael ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 123 Sun Apr 02, 1989 MWADE at 23:13 PDT O.K. Now I've got it loaded, but it won't print out graphics imported from Degas. Is there some setting for the Epson LQ? Thanks in advance, Michael ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 124 Tue Apr 04, 1989 G.ANDERSON at 20:37 CDT Sounds like you've some problems. First, are ALL your fonts, assign.sys file, and program/rsc files on a single disk? If not and your fonts are on your second disk, does your assign.sys file direct the program to read them from that second disk on booting? How many fonts are loading? With only a 1040 there may be too many fonts (shouldn't be the case here). Also, are you loading the EPSONLQ fonts??? Trying to load and run the FX (9pin) fonts will cause problems for sure. Be positive you're using the right fonts for your printer. Finally, WordUp writes a 32-35k file to disk whenever printing out a file with a picture in it. This is to hold the graphic during printing. I then goes back and erases it when finished. If you're printing out text ok but not the graphic that might be your problem, not enough disk space to hold the picture file. Hope this helps....... Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 125 Tue Apr 04, 1989 MWADE at 19:19 PDT Gregg, Thanks, you got it. I didn't have enough room on the working disk. I set the prefs to the B: dirve and now it works great. Thanks again, Michael ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 126 Mon Apr 10, 1989 G.ANDERSON at 20:35 CDT Glad I could help Michael, I ran into the same problem when I was beta testing it. The expanation is in the Docs, but unless you're really looking for it it's easy to miss it. I really love WordUp, you should see what it looks like with a laser printer.... WOW!!! Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 127 Mon Apr 10, 1989 MWADE at 20:46 PDT I'd love to see what the output looks like. I though about buying a laser printer, but my checkbook scurried under th couch when it saw the prices. I'm very happy with my Epson LQ though. Has anyone had problems with sporadic characters spontaneously appearing on the screen after reading in graphics? -Michael ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 128 Mon Apr 10, 1989 S.WHITNEY at 23:06 PDT Yeah, I've seen those random characters to. They also seem to appear en I change the cropping by clicking the mouse. (that "en" word is "when.") --Steve ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 129 Sat Apr 15, 1989 C.DAYMON at 18:56 EDT I have version 1.3, release 11/10/88 and occasionally when printing, something goes amiss and garbage starts printing to the printer. (Like WordUp forgot to issue the printer command to go to graphics mode for the printer pass being executed.) I would think this problem was in the driver, but I use the Neocept driver with my Manual Maker program and have not had any problems. Anyone else had a similar problem? Reprinting the same file does not necessarily cause the problem to reoccur. -Craig W. Daymon P.S. When can we expect hard spaces? ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 130 Mon Apr 17, 1989 R.ANTLEY at 19:43 CDT A while back I left a message about not being able to set the bottom margin for a document in Wordup V1.30, release 11/10/88. I still have the problem, but I have found a work around. It seems that the example files DO allow you to set the bottom margin, so to be able to use this feature, do a cut and paste operation on your document, pasting it into one of the example files (after deleting the text). I advise saving immediately after the paste, since Wordup tends to be slightly unstable (it trashed screen memory the first time I attempted the operation). Richard A. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 131 Tue Apr 25, 1989 BILLCHASE at 23:40 CDT I've got a Citizen MSP-15 printer and the latest WordUp, and I'm really disappointed! I really enjoy editing using WordUp (except for the little things mentioned in my msg 89 above), but when I print a file, it looks like s***! The Citizen is supposed to emulate an FX-80, and prints fine from 1st Word, but looks really crappy from WordUp. Descenders are blocky or missing, and spacing lloks really bad. The whole point here is, has anyone had good results using a Star NX-1000 Rainbow. I found I can get one pretty cheap, and would like to use WordUp full time. Reviews? ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 132 Sun May 07, 1989 MWADE at 00:15 PDT I don't know about the star, but I love my Epson LQ-500. Looks great! ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 133 Mon May 08, 1989 R.LEE21 at 20:37 EDT Anyone know what has happened to Neocept??? They haven't replied to messages on here in quite awhile. Have they abandoned us as well? Maybe they're just busy making great improvements to WordUp..........wishful thinking?? R.Lee ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 134 Tue May 09, 1989 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 08:20 EDT Have you sent them GEnie Mail?? ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 135 Tue May 09, 1989 G.ANDERSON at 19:01 CDT Don't worry if Neocept isn't here to check their forum every day, they really are doing a LOT out there in La-La land and I suspect you'll be very pleased with the results (I get a sneak peak every once in a while). Just hang on, I'll try and answer questions I think I can handle but a lot of the new ones are out of my field . Gregg ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 136 Sun Jun 18, 1989 S.M. at 11:38 EDT I just bought word up. Excellent job! I own word perfect and first word and word writer and this is defintely the best BUT..... No dictionary? No theasaurus? Whooooooohh oh no!! As any writer knows (especially one who writes on a computer) these accesorys are essential. Wait, more than essential, absolutely mandatory!!!! You guys and girls at Neocept have got to produce one. It seems to me (and I would be curious to see how many others agree) it is ludacris to create a WP without a Dic and Thea. D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D C C C C C C C C C C CNothing could be more important on your "to do list". I'll pay (I'll have to!) any amount to get a Dic and Thea that out performs word perfects for Word Up. Yo, Yo. Your response at my E-mail address would be greatly appreciated. My addresss is S.M. In the mean while, "No romance, no romance, do your dance" "Yo, Yo". ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 137 Sat Jul 15, 1989 TIM.BARR at 00:30 MDT Hey everybody, WAKE UP!!!! THIS IS AN UPDATE ALERT!!!! I just got the info in the mail today, for WordUp version 2.0!! The new features are hot!! **** WordUp will now import .GEM metafiles!!!! **** This new feature alone is worth the $20 upgrade fee that Neocept is charging. Looks like I will have to buy the update to version 3.0 of Easy-Draw as well. Here is a list of some of the other new features that have been added to WordUp: Hanging Indents 360x360 dpi 24-pin printer drivers 40k more memory has been freed up for fonts 24 pin printers can be installed on a basic 520 ST scaled sizes of installed fonts are available Upward scrolling is as fast as downward The print dialog box has draft and final choices ASCII priont and save now output tabs special foriegn characters can be typed using two keys, i.e. e' or a` extended mode characters can be used in dialog boxes Mail merge now supports Regent Base and The Informer There is also a list of 26 bugs that have been fixed from version 1.x. Here is a partial list of the fixed bugs: ** NO MORE CRASHING WITH GRPHICS ** ( direct quote from info sheet) Light and Skewed-outline are correctly shown on screen Will not crash if loading a document that has fonts that are not installed, will substitute another font temporaily Displays .IMG files that are larger than 32k correctly My disks and check is already in the mail. I did it The moment I got done reading the info sheet, in fact. These are the features I have been waiting for, for this program. Now, if they could add a dictionary/thesaurus... ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 138 Sat Jul 15, 1989 E.PURKERSON at 01:32 PDT As soon as I get my update info, my check will be in the mail too! escott ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 139 Sat Jul 15, 1989 TOWNS at 17:13 EDT Well, if everything they say is true, sign me up! ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 140 Sun Jul 16, 1989 T.MOORE [Tom] at 09:53 CDT Still no spell checker? I am really disappointed. If they would include a spell checker/thesarus I would be happy to upgrade for any reasonable FEE. Folks, this is Word Proccessor not a DTP tool. With that intent in mind it is negligible to think that WU 2.0 still does not have a spell "cheker" <-(see why it's important to have a spell checker). Name me a new WP that has been released with a 20 dollar ugrade fee and not include a spell checker. I shake my head at this developement because WU has great potential. Why can't we get someone to come out with a legitimate stand alone spell checker to support those who won't build one in there programs(please don't tell me about Atari's vaporware spell checker). Although, WU has its dedicated features to do DTP work it still advirtised as a WP tool. I want more WP meat and potatoes. INCLUDE A SPELL CHECKER!!!!!! He**, raise the price by 40 dollars and include a spell checker. Tell me WU wouldn't sell like hot cakes. Come on NEOCEPT be real and give us something more than GEM imports and bug fixes for a 20 dollar upgrade fee. My wish list for a WU upgrade would be Spell checker/thesaruas, and increased speed in scrolling, screen redraws. Bug fixes should be a given. Neocept don't be afraid to raise your price. Look at how well Calamus is doing. People will buy if you put in the right features. IF you don't WordFlair is going to be a day of reckoning for you! Tom Moore EOF ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 141 Sun Jul 16, 1989 JEFF.W [ST*SYSOP] at 11:09 EDT Stand alone spell checkers? There's Thunder! from Electronic Arts, ElectraSpell (is that the right name?) from Abacus (although I've never been able to get it to work...we stopped carrying them in the store). There was even RegentSpell, from Regent Software, but I don't know if that is available any longer. I think there is a K-Spell from Kuma Software also. What will work with WordUp? I don't believe I've tried any of them with WordUp, but I believe the Thunder! accessory should work fine with it, as it does with MicroSoft Write. The only problem with using the Thunder! accessory with WordUp will probably be getting them both to squeeze into your system's memory at the same time if you have one meg or less. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 142 Sun Jul 16, 1989 M.EASTER at 10:52 PDT Re WU (and other wp's), dictionaries and thesauri It may be unrealistic to have instantaneous access to a good dictionary and thesaurus all loaded into ram on a 1 meg machine. According to those who use K-Roget, (I don't have it, so don't ask me any questions), it is a powerful thesaurus which may also be used as a spell checker and is able to deal with phonetic spellings. It must function as an accessory which accesses the drive for its functions, but it wants to be able to get to about 900K worth of information, and uses a ram disk for some info. Thus, on a 1 meg machine with 2 disk drives, you could work it without disk swapping, but you would still have to deal with the lack of speed of floppy accesses. According to STAN50 (postings in FWP) it does just fine with a hard drive, and he uses it regularly with FWP. When I use WWST 2, I use a 200K ram disk that is holding the thesaurus, and have the drive paths set up for that. I don't keep the dictionary loaded or use continuous spell check, but perform those duties (if I must) after the document is completed. I do like continous access to the thesaurus though, so I won't get "stuck" for a word. I know, I know, that thesaurus is no great shakes, but _maybe_ any thesaurus is better than none. (Maybe not.) Would anyone posting here care to tell us more about K-Roget? Mike ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 143 Sun Jul 16, 1989 STAN50 at 17:49 EDT There is little to add about K-Roget, but it only requires a ram-disk if you don't have a hard drive. While it doesn't spell check per se, it allows you to check the spelling of a word by typing it in and seeing if the word is in K- rogets very large dictionary. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 144 Sun Jul 16, 1989 T.MOORE [Tom] at 23:04 CDT These are not viable soloution as spell checkers. Why do I have to settle for real time spell checkers? I like to be able to spell check my documents after they are completed. Is that to much to ask for? Is the problem we don't see these type of spell checkers is because of GDOS. I have read that there may be problems because of the nature of GDOS. I have no idea just a thought. Again, I would pay for a handsome upgrade to WU if they would give it a spell checker........ ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 145 Sat Jul 22, 1989 S.STAHL1 at 09:27 CDT I'd think that for a person with a good command of English, a spell checker, much less a thesaurus, would be mostly unnecessary. How much time can it take to scan a page (screen) and check any "suspicious" spellings? Sure, programmers are terrible spellers, but they're a minority. I may be biased, having a B.A. in English, but I've never used a thesaurus, and can't see where the need for one would arise in anything but the most formal, persnickety, document. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 146 Sat Jul 22, 1989 CHARDIMAN [Clayt] at 11:54 EDT As a newspaper columnist who sees plenty of correspondence from the public, I can tell you that poor spellers are NOT in the minority. But even for good spellers, I can see a need for a spelling checker. It's a good tool for catching some typos. Of course, it wouldn't flag "reed' for "read," for example. Having said all that, I should point out that I don't use a spelling checker. I prefer reading my own copy over, because whether there are typos or not, I usually find ways to make it better. It's a matter of individual writing style, I suppose. I would like to put in my own two cents, though, and say that if it were to come down to a choice of having a built-in spelling checker or raising the price of WordUp by $25, I'd say forget the spelling checker. As far as the upgrade is concerned, several individual improvements, such as recognizing tabs in ASCII printing, make the whole upgrade worthwhile for me. They give WordUp even more legitimacy as a writer's tool. I'm looking forward to version 2.0. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 147 Sat Jul 22, 1989 C.DAYMON at 16:03 EDT Since you can still save your WordUp files as ASCII, what's the big deal? Save ASCII and check with any of a number of checkers. It's not the best, but it works and you have a better choice of checkers. In HS, I was an excellent speller, but in college, I majored in Math and studied German. Although I suspect German more than Math, I think they both had a negative effect on my spelling. I'd like to see a complete, 200k word, Thesaurus/Dictionary for the ST with whatever other utility features would be appropriate. Given enough memory, it might be nice to allow piping of some sort from other programs into the checker. Why force me to pay for a checker I can only use with 1 program and that probably will be inferior to what would be produced if it was created for the soul purpose of spell checking. -Craig W. Daymon P.S. Add grammer checking like Grammatik III on the PC so it can catch that '?' I missed at the end of that last sentence. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 148 Sun Jul 23, 1989 CHARDIMAN [Clayt] at 20:42 EDT Craig: Soul purpose? Free James Brown . --Clayt ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 149 Mon Jul 24, 1989 C.DAYMON at 19:23 EDT Hey, everybody makes misteaks. ------------ Category 13, Topic 6 Message 150 Wed Jul 26, 1989 NEOTRON [Mike@Neocept] at 18:35 PDT Hello everyone, this is Mike at Neocept. First of all, I do not have time to make much of a reply, but I wanted to address the concerns of those people who keep bringing up the subject of spelling checkers. First of all, a spelling checker and/or thesaurus is not a minor feature in any sense. Adding one is a major undertaking. We have every intention of adding a spelling checker and thesaurus to WordUp. But we want to do it right. That takes time. We are looking at licencing an existing package and adapting it to our needs. But that also takes time, and money. Please do not think that because we haven't announced one so far, we aren't going to do one, or that we don't care about the wishes of those who have mentioned it. Please be patient. Personally, if I hear one more person casually say "it sure would be nice to have a spell checker in WordUp", the guys in the white suits may have to come and give me a forced vacation. (Vacation... I think I remember what that is. I think I had one several years ago...) Well, I guess that's all I wanted to say. Except for one thing. Not including a spell checker but adding some of the other features we have does not indicate that we view WordUp as a DTP program instead of a word processor, as some have suggested. I don't think anybody could take a serious look at both WordUp and just about any page-layout program and think they were the same thing. Please consider that you may not be alone in wanting a spell checker, but there are lot of considerations which we have to make. That sounded a bit strange, didn't it. At any rate, please keep this information in mind. Mike Fulton, Neocept ------------